GNRH question

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ranchmom77

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God's country - Montana
We just GNRH'd and put estrotech patches the 60 head of mama cows that we're AI'ing this year yesterday (Saturday). We hit them with PGN this Friday but are supposed to start heat detecting and AI'ing any this Thursday.
As soon as we finished with one cow yesterday, she exited the chute and was being ridden 15 minutes later. I wouldn't have called it standing heat and the path wasn't scratched off, but that got me thinking... If we find a patch scratched off sometime this week before Thursday are we supposed to AI her even though the protocol doesn't say to do any AI'ing till Thursday?
Thank you for your help! :)
Jamie
 
If your talking about just PG and no cidr you can expect them to come in anytime from 3 to 7 days and yes breed them accordingly and its kinda a toss up about the response you will get
 
If you are talking about PG, we do this some seasons. I have good pregnancy results with this. Usually I do it if I have to run them all threw the chute anyways to worm or whatever. I'll hit them all with PG and a heat patch. Just did this Friday morning and Im already having heats showing up this morning and evening. If timed like you normally would a heat/breeding you should have good results. I hit them with a dose of GNRH at the time of breeding to cause ovulation.
If you Lute (PG) and they were just in heat a day or two before it generally seems to not have an effect. I have one that was in two days prior but we really are a week earlier than I normally start breeding so I wasn't detecting and couldn't be sure of her actual timing. I left her but marked her heat on the calender and will be ready to breed her on her next heat.
 
Thanks for your replies..
bse":ojn2a3qf said:
If your talking about just PG and no cidr you can expect them to come in anytime from 3 to 7 days and yes breed them accordingly and its kinda a toss up about the response you will get
Click to expand...
Do you mean 3 to 7 days after the PG or the GNRH?
Yes we just shot them with GNRH on Saturday the 11th, and then are supposed to shoot them with PG on Friday the 17th. We didn't use cidrs. The protocol says to start heat detecting and AI'ing any that come into heat starting on Thursday the 16th, but if any come in before then should we AI them also?
 
ranchmom77":6yd1wxk6 said:
Thanks for your replies..
bse":6yd1wxk6 said:
If your talking about just PG and no cidr you can expect them to come in anytime from 3 to 7 days and yes breed them accordingly and its kinda a toss up about the response you will get
Click to expand...
Do you mean 3 to 7 days after the PG or the GNRH?
Yes we just shot them with GNRH on Saturday the 11th, and then are supposed to shoot them with PG on Friday the 17th. We didn't use cidrs. The protocol says to start heat detecting and AI'ing any that come into heat starting on Thursday the 16th, but if any come in before then should we AI them also?
Click to expand...

Did you give the PG? It would be 3-7 Days from the Prostin. (pg) In my opinion if its in heat and you know the timing I would definitely breed it. I never pass up a breeding opportunity.
Is your concern that they wont take on this heat? If they are in heat and all is well then they should take.
 
No haven't given the PG yet.. just gave the GNRH yesterday. If one came in, say, tomorrow should I breed it?
I'm just confused because the protocol doesn't tell us to heat detect or breed it until the day before the PG shot, which is still 5 days away.
http://www.beefusa.org/CMDocs/BeefUSA/resources/CC2011-AI-Protocol.pdf
We're using the select sync protocol on the very top left of the page.
 
ranchmom77":6em072yh said:
No haven't given the PG yet.. just gave the GNRH yesterday. If one came in, say, tomorrow should I breed it?
I'm just confused because the protocol doesn't tell us to heat detect or breed it until the day before the PG shot, which is still 5 days away.
http://www.beefusa.org/CMDocs/BeefUSA/resources/CC2011-AI-Protocol.pdf
We're using the select sync protocol on the very top left of the page.
Click to expand...

SORRY! I read the dates but it didn't register! :lol: Been an extremely long week. Apologies!
I would NOT expect one to come in during this time. The way the protocol is designed is to work with the cows hormones and the hormones your putting in. The way GnRH works is it causes a release of LH. This causes ovulation of the follicles. Causing a new folicle wave within a few days. This is why they don't have you heat detect during this time. Physically they shouldn't be "able" to. Not saying it can't or won't happen. Weird things do happen and some cows don't follow the book or respond the way "they should". Yes I would definitely breed if she came in during this time. Of course skipping the PG then.
I personally haven't done this protocol without the CIDR's (select Synch + CIDR) but basically it is the same thing just less hormone (no CIDR). The theory is that you shrink the window of when the cows come in a bit more with the CIDR.
Hopefully I wrote this how it is in my head and hopefully this helps a bit. I'm sure someone else on here can make it a bit more understandable. :-)
 
i totlly missed what you were saying in the first post i thought you just gave PG which you can do. I think with the protocol you used you will have to watch them close the whole time i wouldnt TAI at all with this. if you are doing your own A I and have the time this protocal should work ok. Id give GNRH again after breeding. There gonna come in at different times so when a patch changes breed them i use the Am PM thing if there in that morning breed them that afternoon if there in in the afternoon breed them in the morning.
 
We tried CIDRs and TAI for 3 years and had terrible success even with the GnRH at AI. The GnRH follwed a week later by PGF2 was what we did for 50 years before the CIDRs came along and had much higher success rate. The only drawback is having to observe heats to breed. If we have someone that we haven;t caught after 3 weeks on a normal heat, the GnRH/PGF2 is what we will do to catch them.
 
Double R Ranch":1gsr7242 said:
ranchmom77":1gsr7242 said:
No haven't given the PG yet.. just gave the GNRH yesterday. If one came in, say, tomorrow should I breed it?
I'm just confused because the protocol doesn't tell us to heat detect or breed it until the day before the PG shot, which is still 5 days away.
http://www.beefusa.org/CMDocs/BeefUSA/resources/CC2011-AI-Protocol.pdf
We're using the select sync protocol on the very top left of the page.
Click to expand...

SORRY! I read the dates but it didn't register! :lol: Been an extremely long week. Apologies!
I would NOT expect one to come in during this time. The way the protocol is designed is to work with the cows hormones and the hormones your putting in. The way GnRH works is it causes a release of LH. This causes ovulation of the follicles. Causing a new folicle wave within a few days. This is why they don't have you heat detect during this time. Physically they shouldn't be "able" to. Not saying it can't or won't happen. Weird things do happen and some cows don't follow the book or respond the way "they should". Yes I would definitely breed if she came in during this time. Of course skipping the PG then.
I personally haven't done this protocol without the CIDR's (select Synch + CIDR) but basically it is the same thing just less hormone (no CIDR). The theory is that you shrink the window of when the cows come in a bit more with the CIDR.
Hopefully I wrote this how it is in my head and hopefully this helps a bit. I'm sure someone else on here can make it a bit more understandable. :-)
Click to expand...
I
Great! Haha thank you for clearing that up for me. :) We're not doing a timed AI but will be doing the heat detecting and inseminating ourselves. We've pretty much cleared our calendar for the next few weeks. We might decide to try the CIDRs later on but this is our 2nd year doing AI and were trying to keep the cost down. We did give the mga to the heifers as that worked pretty well for us last year. We've got more time than money! Lol
This year we're doing 10 heifers and 60 cows... Wish us luck!! :D
 
bse":3cgsq52q said:
i totlly missed what you were saying in the first post i thought you just gave PG which you can do. I think with the protocol you used you will have to watch them close the whole time i wouldnt TAI at all with this. if you are doing your own A I and have the time this protocal should work ok. Id give GNRH again after breeding. There gonna come in at different times so when a patch changes breed them i use the Am PM thing if there in that morning breed them that afternoon if there in in the afternoon breed them in the morning.
Click to expand...
I re-read my first post and can see how it got read wrong! Lol thank you for your replies! :)
 
Good luck!
I have had excellent results with CIDR's myself (we use them 2 times). Heat detect then timed AI at 72 hours for heifers and 80 hours for cows. Most of the cows I find come in earlier than the timed AI.
There are many ways and some make them work for them where others can not. That's part of it :-)
Would love to hear how it turns out. Best of luck!
 
Another thing that has made an increase for us is removing calves for 48 hours. We give the PG and hold back the calf. 48 hours goes by usually we see the moms have cycled and been bred. They really do seem to put more into there Repro than milk production. We have had a higher success rate since we started this. I feel that's why so I continue to do this. It's definitely not because I love to hear the balling!!! ;-) Just another thought that popped into my mind :-)
 

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