GH Rambo 279R

[I luv herfrds]

I am wondering if anybody on here has used this bull?
I am thinking about AI'ing him to about 5 head of our biggest cows.

I have read his EPD's off of both the CHA and AHA.

 

[KNERSIE]

I have no personal experience with him, but know a few SA breeders who had used him, if they have calves on the ground they'll still be very young.

I question whether using him on your biggest cows is the best way to introduce him to your herd, he is a frame 7 bull. I assume you are afraid of big birthweights? If so, rather used him on a few very moderate mature cows that has consistantly produced smaller BW calves in the past. (it goes without saying they need to be easy keepers, good milkers and very fertile).

In my opinion the cow plays a bigger role than the bull when it comes to BW. (both provide equal parts of the genetic BW, but the cow's intra-uterine conditions will have a huge effect as well, intra -uterine conditions is also hereditary).

Used on more moderate cows that will also limit the BW will in my opinion produce more usefull offspring with the possibility of producing a homegrown bull adapted to your conditions. Bulls that leans towards any extreme (in his case its size) is best use as a tool in a complementary breeding system.

 

[I luv herfrds]

KNERSIE great to see you back. :banana: :tiphat:

We are looking at him to add growth and muscle into our herd. The birth weight did concern me.
Our biggest cows throw a calf that weights in the low to mid 80's.
I contacted Tom Lane at the 4L Ranch and got his actual weights. He did warn me that he is not to be used on first time heifers.
I was looking at some of our better 4 yo cows. Also a couple of our older cows.
Hubby wants to use the older cows, but I really like these coming 5 yo cows. They are not huge and have raised some really nice calves in the past.

Thanks for your thoughts. That gives me alot of things to look at and consider.

 

[KNERSIE]

Our biggest cows throw a calf that weights in the low to mid 80's.
I contacted Tom Lane at the 4L Ranch and got his actual weights. He did warn me that he is not to be used on first time heifers.I was looking at some of our better 4 yo cows. Also a couple of our older cows.
Hubby wants to use the older cows, but I really like these coming 5 yo cows. They are not huge and have raised some really nice calves in the past.

What I am trying to say is...

When using a big BW bull as a tool, be carefull not to add BW from the cows side as well. Whether the cow can handle a big BW isn't really the concern, but rather what you'd be breeding into the future generations of your herd, especially if you try and breed a bull for own use. You really don't want to be in the situation where you need to go shop for a heifer bull outside your herd(or breed) because of genetically high BW of your own herd.

Also... big + above average for your herd = probably too big for your conditions

The world wide tendency is for more moderate thick cattle with lots of capacity, using a bull like that on your shorter, deeper, barrel shaped cows are more likely to produce thick moderate cattle with capacity than using him on your taller more angular cows.

My main concern when using bigger bulls is always adding leg and frame without adding capacity in the same proportion (there was a time when I used taller bulls to try and do exactly what you're trying now, so I've got that T-shirt)

By all means use him on second calvers onwards, when a heifer can have the first one unassisted, she'll have all the later calves unassisted as well barring twins and other freak situations.

 

[HerefordSire]

I am wondering if anybody on here has used this bull?
I am thinking about AI'ing him to about 5 head of our biggest cows.

I have read his EPD's off of both the CHA and AHA.

Statistically speaking, it appears to me than his sire Neon may be a better value. Besides the marbling increase and lower body weight EPDs with higher accuracies, the semen is less than half the cost.

 

[Herefords.US]

I agree with knersie. Use Rambo on your best middle of the road cows(frame wise). Take those biggest ones and use Harland on them.

George

 

[redfornow]

I agree with knersie. Use Rambo on your best middle of the road cows(frame wise). Take those biggest ones and use Harland on them.

George

What is Harland's frame score?
I have heard a couple of numbers, what do you know George?

 

[Herefords.US]

I agree with knersie. Use Rambo on your best middle of the road cows(frame wise). Take those biggest ones and use Harland on them.

George

What is Harland's frame score?
I have heard a couple of numbers, what do you know George?

I saw him as a 6 month old calf, then as yearling past at the Harland dispersion. My only criticism of him at the Harland dispersion was that I thought he was TOO moderate for what I was looking for. I don't know exactly what his frame score was, but I would guess it as being in the 6.0 range or a little less. I couldn't get my eyes off the Cowboy calf, at the side of his dam, at that dispersion, so I didn't really closely scrutinize Harland. I did take a good look at Harland's dam and she had as much thickness of top as I think I've ever seen - in a cow that age.

Based on the calves I've seen (pictures of), and what I've been told by other breeders who've used him, Harland is really doing a great job! If my desire was to moderate BWs and frame size, yet maintain or increase growth, he'd have to be at the top of the list. I plan on investing in a few straws to use in some select matings in the future.

George

 

[HerefordSire]

I am wondering if anybody on here has used this bull?
I am thinking about AI'ing him to about 5 head of our biggest cows.

I have read his EPD's off of both the CHA and AHA.

Statistically speaking, it appears to me than his sire Neon may be a better value. Besides the marbling increase and lower body weight EPDs with higher accuracies, the semen is less than half the cost.

There is a good photo of Neon in the following catalog. Also, notice how one of the best in the business is using Online crosses with Neon. My money is on Neon, not Rambo. I have the opinion this breeder will rise beyond most breeders because of the use of Remitall genetics and especially Online, Keynote, and Pounder.

Barber - Moler catalog...Warning ....pdf download
http://www.reedent.com/midwest/catalogs ... barber.pdf

 

[I luv herfrds]

Went on Hirsche's web site and looked at Neon. He is not a bad looking bull. Wish he was a bit longer though. Liked GH Adams Shadow 144S. He came out of Rambo's dam. That is one nice looking cow, saw her on their web site too.
www.hirsche.com

George that is why I was looking at the coming 5yo cows. They are not the biggest we have.

Now if you go to the Everything Else board and look under my post "Pretty Happy" I have posted a picture of one of our steers that was in the 4-H show this year. He turned out pretty nice, but you can see that we need to have some thickness added and more muscle on the butt. Even the judge said we needed more muscle on the butt.

 

[Herefords.US]

I am wondering if anybody on here has used this bull?
I am thinking about AI'ing him to about 5 head of our biggest cows.

I have read his EPD's off of both the CHA and AHA.

Statistically speaking, it appears to me than his sire Neon may be a better value. Besides the marbling increase and lower body weight EPDs with higher accuracies, the semen is less than half the cost.

There is a good photo of Neon in the following catalog. Also, notice how one of the best in the business is using Online crosses with Neon. My money is on Neon, not Rambo. I have the opinion this breeder will rise beyond most breeders because of the use of Remitall genetics and especially Online, Keynote, and Pounder.

Barber - Moler catalog...Warning ....pdf download
http://www.reedent.com/midwest/catalogs ... barber.pdf

Rise beyond? Hereford breeders have been "chasing" the Barbers now for 40 years or so! In the first show that I attended after returning to business in 2002(Reno), the Barbers largely swept the championships in both the Horned and Polled Divisions.

http://www.barberranch.com/reno/nugget3.htm

Seeing their lineup, along with the Remitall cattle in Denver the next month, convinced me that Polled Hereford cattle had achieved parity in comparison to their horned counterparts.

The Barbers were using Keynote on horned bloodlines LONG before it became fashionable to use Remitall genetics on horned Herefords. The rest of us are just "Johnny Come Latelys" who witnessed the success they've had and tried to emulate it.

Of course, we've got our share of "purists" here in Texas, on both the polled and horned side, that think we've bastardized the breed by comingling them.

Neon's a good bull. So is Rambo.

George

 

[HerefordSire]

Rise beyond? Hereford breeders have been "chasing" the Barbers now for 40 years or so! In the first show that I attended after returning to business in 2002(Reno), the Barbers largely swept the championships in both the Horned and Polled Divisions.

Does that mean you think they are the number one breeder in North America? I am not sure I do because I don't care for the horned blood although I like Neon. If they were strictly polled with an occasional twist of lime, I would say they could very well be the leader. Generally, you are correct, I don't know much about Herefords and their breeders.

Seeing their lineup, along with the Remitall cattle in Denver the next month, convinced me that Polled Hereford cattle had achieved parity in comparison to their horned counterparts.

The Barbers were using Keynote on horned bloodlines LONG before it became fashionable to use Remitall genetics on horned Herefords. The rest of us are just "Johnny Come Latelys" who witnessed the success they've had and tried to emulate it.

Hopefully you will never catching me mixing them. If I did, I would give Neon a shot and a couple of other Canadian specimens.

Of course, we've got our share of "purists" here in Texas, on both the polled and horned side, that think we've bastardized the breed by comingling them.

I am probably leaning to the purist side of philosophy more than the other side.

Neon's a good bull. So is Rambo.

Had Rambo outperformed Neon yet?

George


I especially like they way they are linebreeding Online. Maybe rockett2222 will take note.

 

[Herefords.US]

I especially like they way they are linebreeding Online. Maybe rockett2222 will take note.

I've noticed that too... and been watching with interest. Not many are doing that. I'm hoping to go to Barber's sale this year to see those particular cattle first hand.

George

 

[Herefords.US]

Had Rambo outperformed Neon yet?

Depends on what you want. If I was looking for show cattle, I'd use Rambo.

George

 

[Herefords.US]

The Barbers were using Keynote on horned bloodlines LONG before it became fashionable to use Remitall genetics on horned Herefords. The rest of us are just "Johnny Come Latelys" who witnessed the success they've had and tried to emulate it.

Hopefully you will never catching me mixing them. If I did, I would give Neon a shot and a couple of other Canadian specimens.

I really had to laugh at this!

From your Polled Hereford Plan - Update thread:

Embryo totals with one flush remaining are as follows:
Online 122L (2) - 16
Boomer 29F (1) - 4
Boomer 46B (1) - 3
Embracer 8E (1) - 2
Pounder ET (1) - 8
Governor (1) - 12
Embracer 8006 (1) - 11
Bogart 5L (1) - 0
Kootenay 9K (1) - 6

Next flush for donors are:
Duster 60D
Nation Wide 93N
Highway 157H
Foundaton 46F
Stockmaster 512

Natural Calf for donors are:
Hollywood 37H
Nitro 167N
Channing ET
Fellis 821C
Call 100L

Do you realize how many of these bulls are only heterozygous polled? And have you seen a picture of that linebred Prospector bull that Frank Felton used(among others)?

http://www.witherspoonsherefords.com/WNHWEB11.HTM

You, friend, are NO Polled Hereford purist!

George

 

[JHH]

I like Rambo but have talked myself out of using him because of frame size and cost of semen.

I do like Neon ans have 3 settled to him I think and will know more in March.

I also like that Oxley 0125 bull and semen is resonable.JHH

 

[rocket2222]

I especially like they way they are linebreeding Online. Maybe rockett2222 will take note.

I've noticed that too... and been watching with interest. Not many are doing that. I'm hoping to go to Barber's sale this year to see those particular cattle first hand.

George

Yes, I know who the Barber's are. Like George said, they've been good for a long time. Looks like they've started going down hill here lately though. So here's my take on what happened. :lol: This all started when Ankony hired Brett away from MSU, and convinced him that Online [Ankony's favorite] was actually a good bull, and they could make a fortune together. After a couple of halfass sales, or was it just one :roll: Virgil Lovell finally figured out, those good old Hereford breeders had been bidding up the prices on all those cattle he got, and he wouldn't be seeing a big return on his investments for some time, so he decided to get out of the Hereford business while the herd he had put together still had good value thanks to the breeders he brought them from. For some unknown reason what ever Ankony told Brett must have stuck with him, which led them to the program they have today. Hopefully one day, he will again turn back to the program he ran a MSU, and get back to raising good cattle again.

 

[I luv herfrds]

OK getting back to what I asked.
Here is a pic of one of our 4 yo cows. That is her calf. Bull calf whose weight was 89# at birth. No problems.

 

[alexfarms]

I especially like they way they are linebreeding Online. Maybe rockett2222 will take note.

I've noticed that too... and been watching with interest. Not many are doing that. I'm hoping to go to Barber's sale this year to see those particular cattle first hand.

George

Yes, I know who the Barber's are. Like George said, they've been good for a long time. Looks like they've started going down hill here lately though. So here's my take on what happened. :lol: This all started when Ankony hired Brett away from MSU, and convinced him that Online [Ankony's favorite] was actually a good bull, and they could make a fortune together. After a couple of halfass sales, or was it just one :roll: Virgil Lovell finally figured out, those good old Hereford breeders had been bidding up the prices on all those cattle he got, and he wouldn't be seeing a big return on his investments for some time, so he decided to get out of the Hereford business while the herd he had put together still had good value thanks to the breeders he brought them from. For some unknown reason what ever Ankony told Brett must have stuck with him, which led them to the program they have today. Hopefully one day, he will again turn back to the program he ran a MSU, and get back to raising good cattle again.

There were problems with Online. I spoke to one of the Latimers about Online and the Ankony deal in 2005 and they refused to even talk about it. Online had problems, all of them do at some point. He had some kind of rupture or something that caused his semen to be taken off the market for a time. I never really got all the information on it, but it must have been fairly serious and it must have caused complaints from Ankony about the bull. I am new to this board, so maybe I am not telling you anything you didn't already know. Online is a great bull and the Remitall herd was a great herd and I suspect if it hadn't been for the hardship they suffered while the boarder was closed they would not have sold out. The Online heifers I have seen have tremendous depth of rib and lets face it most of the big and quick money in the purebred cattle business is made by those who focus on immediate results. Online was a star and used heavily before he was ever proven. One of the unfortunate things in purebred cattle breeding today is the effect of the show ring combined with AI causeing unproven bulls to be used widely, but that is the free market and that is the way quick money is made. Let the buyer beware.

 

[Herefords.US]

OK getting back to what I asked.

Sorry for my contribution in derailing your thread. :compute: Back when I moderated one of these boards, I was always annoyed with posters who did that - now I'm as bad as any of them! :help:

I see nothing wrong with using Rambo on that cow. It should be a good mating. Nice pair.

I looked at your steer. Nice calf overall and you're right - could use more hindquarter.

George