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Genex Bulls Simmental
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<blockquote data-quote="JustSimmental" data-source="post: 1019801" data-attributes="member: 14624"><p><strong>Legacy has been way over used to the point of way past inbreeding in some cases. Legacy was good in HIS DAY 1999+. Mainly it has been the overuse of Hooks Shear Force, CNS Dream On, which both go back to Legacy 151.</strong> </p><p></p><p>Here is a prime example >> <strong><a href="https://herdbook.simmental.org/simmapp/action/animalSearch.AnimalSearchAction?eventSubmit_displayAnimal=T&animalNumber=2401259" target="_blank">https://herdbook.simmental.org/simmapp/action/animalSearch.AnimalSearchAction?eventSubmit_displayAnimal=T&animalNumber=2401259</a></strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Before 2013, a ¾ SimAngus bull when bred to a Purebred cow – the offspring was considered a Purebred. It changed in 2013 the offspring is now a 7/8 SimAngus. The calf in my example was such a breeding, but as you can see is listed as a Purebred since he was born in 2012. <a href="https://herdbook.simmental.org/simmapp/action/animalSearch.AnimalSearchAction?eventSubmit_displayAnimal=T&animalNumber=2662461" target="_blank">https://herdbook.simmental.org/simmapp/action/animalSearch.AnimalSearchAction?eventSubmit_displayAnimal=T&animalNumber=2662461</a> </strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>If what you say was really true and "many of the breeders" followed API and TI then when we went in the ASA website <a href="https://herdbook.simmental.org/simmapp/action/pages.PagesAction/eventSubmit_displayPage/T/pageId/14/" target="_blank">https://herdbook.simmental.org/simmapp/action/pages.PagesAction/eventSubmit_displayPage/T/pageId/14/</a> we would not see the Low API and TI and the Legacy abundance within the pages of the top 50 Sires used in 2013 would we? Surely we wouldn't see the likes of Upgrade, Hooks Shear Force, Ollie, Grandmaster, Club King, Manifest, Flying B Cut Above and the various other low API TI cattle on that list. "Serious Breeders" are the key words here.</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>When Grandmaster first hit the scene ASA found out that the owners were cooking the books on that bull – nevertheless his numbers plummeted and they are still terrible – </strong></p><p><strong>What part of his EPD's do you like? His 46 WW EPD, his 66 YW EPD, maybe it is his 10.7 CW or 8.2 CE or maybe it could be his 59.3 TI --- he is a cull. Grandmaster heifers have had some fertility issues as well.</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Again 600 U was great in HIS DAY -- 1988..... a foundation sire, but in today's standards he is just an average joe – it is genetic improvement over time. Same goes with Meyer 734 – great in HIS DAY.</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>Any animal that has the same sire twice in his bloodline and on the same side is INBRED – and for a PB breeder is no good for breeding, but for commercial operations where cattle all go to market that's ok I guess.... I'd prefer not to see it at all myself, that way the commercial guy might feel better about keeping some heifers – we need to be breeding the kind of bulls that gives the commercial guy all the options.</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>True --- But think about it this way – If 8000 heifers were born to Hooks Shear Force and 5000 heifers to CNS Dream On (both with Legacy bloodlines) last year and then you threw in the countless other heifers born to the sons and grandsons of those two Sires like Beefmaker and 100 others------ What do you think they need to breed those heifers to? – You guessed right –<u>A Non-Legacy Bull</u></strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>I've seen a lot of show heifers never make it in a production herd without a bucket close at hand --- and we all need to remember <u>Nothing is absolutely true in ALL CASES –that's always a given.</u> </strong></p><p></p><p>and Welcome to Simmental</p><p></p><p>JS</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JustSimmental, post: 1019801, member: 14624"] [b]Legacy has been way over used to the point of way past inbreeding in some cases. Legacy was good in HIS DAY 1999+. Mainly it has been the overuse of Hooks Shear Force, CNS Dream On, which both go back to Legacy 151.[/b] Here is a prime example >> [b][url]https://herdbook.simmental.org/simmapp/action/animalSearch.AnimalSearchAction?eventSubmit_displayAnimal=T&animalNumber=2401259[/url][/b] [b]Before 2013, a ¾ SimAngus bull when bred to a Purebred cow – the offspring was considered a Purebred. It changed in 2013 the offspring is now a 7/8 SimAngus. The calf in my example was such a breeding, but as you can see is listed as a Purebred since he was born in 2012. [url]https://herdbook.simmental.org/simmapp/action/animalSearch.AnimalSearchAction?eventSubmit_displayAnimal=T&animalNumber=2662461[/url] [/b] [b]If what you say was really true and “many of the breeders” followed API and TI then when we went in the ASA website [url]https://herdbook.simmental.org/simmapp/action/pages.PagesAction/eventSubmit_displayPage/T/pageId/14/[/url] we would not see the Low API and TI and the Legacy abundance within the pages of the top 50 Sires used in 2013 would we? Surely we wouldn’t see the likes of Upgrade, Hooks Shear Force, Ollie, Grandmaster, Club King, Manifest, Flying B Cut Above and the various other low API TI cattle on that list. “Serious Breeders” are the key words here.[/b] [b]When Grandmaster first hit the scene ASA found out that the owners were cooking the books on that bull – nevertheless his numbers plummeted and they are still terrible – What part of his EPD’s do you like? His 46 WW EPD, his 66 YW EPD, maybe it is his 10.7 CW or 8.2 CE or maybe it could be his 59.3 TI --- he is a cull. Grandmaster heifers have had some fertility issues as well.[/b] [b]Again 600 U was great in HIS DAY -- 1988..... a foundation sire, but in today’s standards he is just an average joe – it is genetic improvement over time. Same goes with Meyer 734 – great in HIS DAY. Any animal that has the same sire twice in his bloodline and on the same side is INBRED – and for a PB breeder is no good for breeding, but for commercial operations where cattle all go to market that’s ok I guess.... I’d prefer not to see it at all myself, that way the commercial guy might feel better about keeping some heifers – we need to be breeding the kind of bulls that gives the commercial guy all the options.[/b] [b]True --- But think about it this way – If 8000 heifers were born to Hooks Shear Force and 5000 heifers to CNS Dream On (both with Legacy bloodlines) last year and then you threw in the countless other heifers born to the sons and grandsons of those two Sires like Beefmaker and 100 others------ What do you think they need to breed those heifers to? – You guessed right –[u]A Non-Legacy Bull[/u][/b] [b]I’ve seen a lot of show heifers never make it in a production herd without a bucket close at hand --- and we all need to remember [u]Nothing is absolutely true in ALL CASES –that’s always a given.[/u] [/b] and Welcome to Simmental JS [/QUOTE]
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