Freedom over security

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alisonb

alisonb

Well-known member
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Jul 11, 2009
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City & State/Province
South Africa
Would you sacrifice freedom for security? I think it was Franklin that said 'He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither and will loose both'.
Does freedom guarantee security? Is there something like 'perfect' security? Do we allow fear to make us give up our freedom? Is it possible to strike a balance between the two? Is job security more important than financial freedom?
So many questions.......
 
alisonb":1vrc9ebl said:
Would you sacrifice freedom for security? I think it was Franklin that said 'He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither and will loose both'.
Does freedom guarantee security? Is there something like 'perfect' security? Do we allow fear to make us give up our freedom? Is it possible to strike a balance between the two? Is job security more important than financial freedom?
So many questions.......
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i keep the balance oiled and ready,,, give me freedom i'll take care of the security
:cowboy:
 
alisonb":289eey45 said:
Would you sacrifice freedom for security? I think it was Franklin that said 'He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither and will loose both'.
Does freedom guarantee security? Is there something like 'perfect' security? Do we allow fear to make us give up our freedom? Is it possible to strike a balance between the two? Is job security more important than financial freedom?
So many questions.......
Click to expand...

some folks still believe Utopia exists.
 
Security is an illusion. Drought, flood, earthquake, pestilence, vampires. Heck, we're never more than a stride in front of that bear. Folks who promise security are liars.
 
I'll take freedom any day. I can pretty well take care of my security. I don't need a check, I don't need a free cell phone, I don't need nothing they got to give just leave me alone and quit telling me how they are helping protect me from myself.
 
I don't know about South Africa Alison but I kind of think that freedom has become an illusion here in the USA.

As far as security is concerned. It's a pretty thin veil. :frowns:
 
ALACOWMAN":26422b0t said:
alisonb":26422b0t said:
Would you sacrifice freedom for security? I think it was Franklin that said 'He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither and will loose both'.
Does freedom guarantee security? Is there something like 'perfect' security? Do we allow fear to make us give up our freedom? Is it possible to strike a balance between the two? Is job security more important than financial freedom?
So many questions.......
Click to expand...
i keep the balance oiled and ready,,, give me freedom i'll take care of the security
:cowboy:
Click to expand...
I agree with AC.
A lot of people say they are for freedom, until it is showdown time. Then it is another story.
The founding fathers of this country (USA) were willing to sacrifice security for freedom. This country was founded on the desire for freedom and became a great nation. I think that mind set ended with the WWII generation. I think there are still some brave and courageus people that love freedom more than security, but the majority I question.
Just had to get me started, didnt you Alison? :x
 
Just last week I had a big discussion with members of my online mule group. it started when I said that I was not going on a trail ride where helmets were required.

my position was that it was my head and my choice and a helmet did not protect me from injury only my head. Then I went on a theme of personal cloice and personal responsibility.

four or five folks supported my choice and two of them were female.

Interestingly the rest of the group chided me (in their kindest and most concerned phraseology) about my lack of resposnsibility, lack of correct judgement, lack of concern that my eventual mush head was going to be a drain on my family and society as inevitably someone would have to wipe the drool from my chin and care for me becasue i did not wear a helmet when riding.

I pointed out that none of them wore a helmet while driving an automobile which was a much more dangerous avocation than riding. No effect.

It was one of the heaviest posted topics on the group in years.

I tried with all my effort to defend freedom of choice and the American way and I did not sway the opinion of any ( the majority who posted and majority female) who were all for giving up liberty in favor of personal safety.

What I took away from it is the same conclusion as above. Our society has grown so soft over the last half century, that safety is valued more than freedom. Our society has become accustomed to politician and special interest groups telling us what was safe and what protection we needed and then willingly accepting it.

All I could end up telling them was that when they came after my freedom.......
they better have on all their safety gear. but I am staggered when I think back on all the freedoms that have already been taken from me in my lifetime all under the guise of for the common good and for my own safety.

yet people call me a fool for saying that our nation has passed its golden era and is in decline. freedom made this nation great and freedom is being lost daily.

Congress is in session year round solely to regulate our lives and seperate us from our money.
state legislatures are awash with new laws and regulations every year.
citizens in an information age don't bother to even read the new regulations so the legistators feet are never held to the fire until the regulations are law, and then it is too late.

I discovered this year that we have a law on the books in Virginia of a $100.00 fine for improper disposal of a cigarrette butt in a public place or on private property without permission. i only discovered it because a whacky liberal legislator wanted to amend it to create a "Special Fund" for the fines to be directed to. Now I quit smoking nearly 12 years ago and I do not endorse smoking nor do I endorse littering. But this law was quietly enacted and no one knows about it, only because no locality has decided to enforce it. When I pointed this out to a group where I was doing a presentation on changing agricultural laws ( the amendment had been referred to the agriculture committee is how I found it among the 126 bills regarding agriculture this year in our legislature) most had the opinion........
Good, smoking is a nasty and dangerous habit and smokers should be fined.
they were slighly more concerned when I pointed out eleven proposals regarding the regulation of fertilizer by the state. but one of theses will pass the general assembly.

I will quit now as I find myself getting wound up again. the majority of the population has become like sheep and they crave the protection of the shepherd more than the freedom to graze.
 
pdfangus":2y2quii4 said:
Good, smoking is a nasty and dangerous habit and smokers should be fined.
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Isn;t it a lot like wearing a helmet, personal choices and FREEDOMS?
 
dun":56axwijz said:
pdfangus":56axwijz said:
Good, smoking is a nasty and dangerous habit and smokers should be fined.
Click to expand...
Isn;t it a lot like wearing a helmet, personal choices and FREEDOMS?
Click to expand...

I look at it like this being a smoker and now a former smoker.

YOU are free to smoke all you want. I am free to ask you not to make me smell it. I am also free to wish you didn't because I like you and know that it's not good for you. The only part that causes me concern is if it makes me have problems because of my own lung condition. Then I believe you are not FREE to do that to me.
 
that line quoted above was not my opinion......
it was the concensus of the group I was presenting to.

i am always the advocate of personal freedom and its twin brother personal responsibility.

i abhor the nanny state.
 
3waycross":vq0a54bk said:
dun":vq0a54bk said:
pdfangus":vq0a54bk said:
Good, smoking is a nasty and dangerous habit and smokers should be fined.
Click to expand...
Isn;t it a lot like wearing a helmet, personal choices and FREEDOMS?
Click to expand...

I look at it like this being a smoker and now a former smoker.

YOU are free to smoke all you want. I am free to ask you not to make me smell it. I am also free to wish you didn't because I like you and know that it's not good for you. The only part that causes me concern is if it makes me have problems because of my own lung condition. Then I believe you are not FREE to do that to me.
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that sounds more like a common courtesy or repect for others issue,, like the asshole cussin; and talking loud at the next table in front of you and your family
 
ALACOWMAN":3kby5mfh said:
[that sounds more like a common courtesy or repect for others issue
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Sadly the "commons" seem to be a ting of the past. Common Sense, Common Courtesy, Common Decency, etc. are long gone in most places.
 
I believe that security is a perception that we are secure. We use so much energy creating that 'cage' of security that we lose track of the broader picture and what is truely important in our lives. 'We' can refer to an individual or the body governing us.
In a perfect world, I would certainly choose freedom over security but with all that is happening in the world today freedom is an impossibility. Unless we have political, academic and financial freedom we cannot say we are free.
 
alisonb":kz20zgg6 said:
I believe that security is a perception that we are secure. We use so much energy creating that 'cage' of security that we lose track of the broader picture and what is truely important in our lives. 'We' can refer to an individual or the body governing us.
In a perfect world, I would certainly choose freedom over security but with all that is happening in the world today freedom is an impossibility. Unless we have political, academic and financial freedom we cannot say we are free.
Click to expand...

the sad truths of what you are saying are.

perception of security.....I agree that most love the perception and have no concept of the acuality

Unless we have political, academic and financial freedom we cannot say we are free.....
the sad part of this is that in this country in my lifetime we had those things ....but we pretty much no longer have them so....we are no longer free
 
doesnt matter how free you are the way i see it,, it wont stop others from trying to control you. but you atleast you have the freedom to fight back....................its the balls that we lack.. and this countrys set,, is starting to look like raisins
 

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