Found a fetus

[Dave]

So I am raising up a bunch of heifers that I will breed in May to sell in the fall. The majority of these heifers came from the sale barn and thus unknown sources. Well last night when I fed I found a fetus which was a little bigger than a football laying on the slab. One of these girls had a teenage pregnancy that aborted. There is 29 heifers in that pen. I tried to determine which one it was but it was about half dark and I never could find any signs pointing to the right one. It was probably the modified life vaccine that they just recieved that cause the abortion.
It got me thinking. Short of pregging 60 head, how would I find out if there are other teen pregs in the bunch? I would hate to go to the effort to sync and AI these heifers only to have the AI guy reach in and find a calf. And the Lute from the sync process might cause her to abort. In which case will she cycle again in time for the clean up bull to catch her? And if she doesn't abort I have a teen preg that I need to pull out of the bunch and calf out myself.

 

[Anonymous]

You have 3 choices. Preg check them all,give them all lute, or prepare for a few potential disasters

 

[Dave]

One or two wouldn't hurt the bottom line. I am pretty good at spotting ones that show at all. Of course you aren't going to see any that are in the first trimester. But they weigh 750-800 now so a early preg now would be grown out enough by calving time. They would just have to be pulled from the group to sell. On the other hand there was this one that aborted. I didn't spot her.

Mostly thinking out loud here.

 

[Lucky_P]

Be watching - if the mlv vaccine took this one out, you may have some more coming along shortly. Salebarn heifers (at least, here) probably haven't seen a vaccine, and if any others are bred, they may likely abort, too. May do a more thorough job of cleaning out the breds than lute-ing them, if you buy into some of the hysteria about mlv vaccines. I'm just saying...

 

[Cattleman200]

Your best option to save trouble and especially them coming out of the sale barn was to lutalyse all of them about 10 days after you got them home and settled in. I have seen more than a few heifers get bred at 6-7 months old. Its just a good practice to knock out any potential problems in the future. On the other hand there is a blood test that I think is around $3 that will give you an idea where you stand now. A cost of $180 would be cheap compared to a couple of possibly dead heifers later.



Circle H Ranch

 

[Dave]

Well there was another one last night. This one about the size of a small cat. That modified live must be working. It does make me wonder. Both of these have been up on the slab where the feeders are. It is about 25 by 100 feet. They also have about 2 acres and I rarely go out there unless there is a need to. So how many more could have been dropped out there that I would never see?

I am going to the sale this afternoon. My vet is also the sale yard vet, so we will be having a conversation. And actually this pen is going down the chute tomorrow because about half of them need their booster shots. I may be luting them too.

 

[chippie]

depending how far along they are bred, the lute may not work. i know that from experience. it is not 100% effective.

 

[cowgirl_jenna]

depending how far along they are bred, the lute may not work. i know that from experience. it is not 100% effective.

Yep, "For Intramuscular Use for Abortion of Feedlot and Other Non-Lactating Cattle. LUTALYSE is indicated for its abortifacient effect in feedlot and other non-lactating cattle during the first 100 days of gestation. Inject a dose of 25 mg intramuscularly. Cattle that abort will abort within 35 days of injection." per label
As with anything, it prob will work "off label" but may not be as effective. With the size of your fetusus, you may still be in the "safe zone", but getting close to going over.
2 months- mouse
3 months- rat
4 months -small cat
5 months- large cat
6 months- beagle dog

 

[Dave]

Well I am a serious believer in the potential affects of modified live vaccine. They say not to give it to pregnet cows. Well after two rounds into the heifers I am now up to 4 abortions. Which for me isn't a bad thing because they should be cycling again in time to breed. But I am certainly a beliver in not using it on pregnet cows. One does have to wonder about the management of the original owners of these heifers. Did they just leave the bull in with them or did they not cut the bull calves? I have had way too high of a rate of teenage pregancy in this bunch.
I am going to preg the heifers. I needed to work on the chute first. It needed a new catch dog on the head gate. Along with the dog I needed a new spring. They list a right hand and a left hand spring. I wasn't sure which I needed so I told them to send one of each. I got two springs one marked right and one marked left. Trouble is they are both the same and both the wrong one. So the vet is on hold until I get the chute fixed.

 

[dun]

Does your vet maybe have a portable chute he can bring along to use?

 

[cowgirl_jenna]

One does have to wonder about the management of the original owners of these heifers. Did they just leave the bull in with them or did they not cut the bull calves? I have had way too high of a rate of teenage pregnancy in this bunch.

Yeah, someone kinda goofed there for sure. Seems you hear more of this recently though, are bull calves reaching maturity sooner, people leaving the calves on the cows much longer, or is there just less "management"? I'm not sure but there seems to be more of a trend.? Will be very interesting to hear your results from the vet check!
Jenna

 

[Dave]

The vet was out on Saturday and we pregged the heifers. Out of 48 head there was 6 that were bred. Add the 4 that slipped calves that makes 10 out of 48 heifers with teenage pregnancies. One group of five that I bought in the country had 3 of the bred heifers (1 of the miscarriage and 2 breds). I talked to the guy and he said that he didn't understand it. The heifers were born in February and March last spring. I asked when he pulled the bull and he said the first of November. Well, according to the vet they are 5-6 months bred. Probably bred in October. It does leave me holding a bag. I am thinking to take them back to the sale and sell now as bred heifers. Let somebody else worry about getting the calf out of them.

 

[Aaron]

Calving out young heifers is not fun. So many think its no big deal until you hit 4 or 5 that are carrying an 85 lb calf and have no hips. C-sections get pricey in a hurry, especially if the calf is dead and the heifer has complications afterwards.

That is the reason I will never, ever buy stocker heifers, and run a tight season on the cows. The youngest I have seen a crossbred heifer get bred was 4 months - the reason I know that is because I had to help the neighbor and vet cut her open.

 

[Taurus]

The vet was out on Saturday and we pregged the heifers. Out of 48 head there was 6 that were bred. Add the 4 that slipped calves that makes 10 out of 48 heifers with teenage pregnancies. One group of five that I bought in the country had 3 of the bred heifers (1 of the miscarriage and 2 breds). I talked to the guy and he said that he didn't understand it. The heifers were born in February and March last spring. I asked when he pulled the bull and he said the first of November. Well, according to the vet they are 5-6 months bred. Probably bred in October. It does leave me holding a bag. I am thinking to take them back to the sale and sell now as bred heifers. Let somebody else worry about getting the calf out of them.

I thinks that you should sell them for a killing price.

 

[rockridgecattle]

MLV is usually only a problem in first time doses on pregnant cows. Once year one with booster is done it is ok on preg cows.
That said though, you get the best protection for the fetus if it is give at least three weeks prior to bull turn out (first time callers should have their booster done long before and on the cow schedule now
I'd do better explaining by example
All calves get their first shots in may along with the cow, pre bull turn out. Bulls get the shots, all ivomecd and cows get 8way blackleg booster every other year...vet advice for our area
In the fall we booster our feedlot calves as well as ivomec all cows and bulls. Preg test as well and bred heifers get sour guarded
Whole cow/heifer hers scour guarded early January for mid march calving
The following spring the heifers get their yearly FP protection booster when the cows do.
Sometimes abortions can occur in PI bred animals given a MLV

 

[Jake]

The vet was out on Saturday and we pregged the heifers. Out of 48 head there was 6 that were bred. Add the 4 that slipped calves that makes 10 out of 48 heifers with teenage pregnancies. One group of five that I bought in the country had 3 of the bred heifers (1 of the miscarriage and 2 breds). I talked to the guy and he said that he didn't understand it. The heifers were born in February and March last spring. I asked when he pulled the bull and he said the first of November. Well, according to the vet they are 5-6 months bred. Probably bred in October. It does leave me holding a bag. I am thinking to take them back to the sale and sell now as bred heifers. Let somebody else worry about getting the calf out of them.

I thinks that you should sell them for a killing price.

Even if they are that far along you can still abort them with dex and lute and salvage the heifer.