Flecks

[DiamondSCattleCo]

After checking my weights over, my crossing to Shorthorn bulls has done most of what I wanted: Better average weight gain per day and very good feed conversion.

However, on about 1/3 of my commercial animals (mostly the Brit/Brit crosses), the Simm cross still worked the best, so I went shopping for a Simm bull today. The breeder that I normally buy from downsized last year and sold all his bulls already, so that leaves me with a couple other breeder choices.

One of these breeders uses nothing but Fleckvieh stock, but I've never looked closely at Fleck stuff before. From the little bit of reading I've done tonight, I understand they are generally easier fleshing than larger framed Simm stock. The big non-polled heads scare me a bit, as my critters are smaller framed (1200 lb avg). Two of the bulls I'll be looking at have 90-100 lb birthweights, which my ladies can normally handle, but I've never bred to non-polled animal before either.

So I guess I'm looking for is someone who can give me some generalizations on Flecks, preferably someone whose used both in the past. Calving ease, fleshing, etc... Any particular bloodlines to be watching for? These are terminal cross animals, so heifer retention is not a priority. I'm looking for pure performance without having to pull every last calf.

Rod

 

[UG]

I've also looked at the Fleckvieh cattle and have concerns about calving ease, though from what I understand, mature cows (4+ years old) should be able to handle a Fleck bull. I'd definitely check out the shoulders of whatever bull you buy to ensure that they are not massive, possibly resulting in calves with big shoulders resulting in calving problems.

You mentioned that all the calves will be terminal. Personally, I feel that some of the best advantages of the Flecks are that the females make good brood cows (easy fleshing, good milk production, calm disposition, etc). If you decide not to keep the heifers back for your own herd, I'd encourage you to at least background them and sell them at a premium as top quality replacement females.

 

[CattleAnnie]

Honey had some Fleckvieh Simmental bulls. Sure made some nice thick calves. Didn't have any birth related problems with their calves (either in weight or calving ease).

Calves out of those bulls were also fairly vigorous at birth. Grew to be very thick over the top. Sold well.

My favourite bloodline was the Neff line, but that's just personal preference. ;-)


Take care.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Sorry I hadn't seen this post.
Anyway, there are Flecks and there are Flecks. Some are way too big in the front end (head & shoulders) - definately hard calving. The more modern Flecks are great.
Sometimes, i think the Fullblood breeders don't understand that higher CE numbers is good & LOWER BW numbers is good.

I'm assuming this breeder doesn't have papers??? If so, post the EPD's & pedigree on this thread, and I'll give my opinion. If no papers, you will have to rely of their phenotype - narrow head, smooth shoulders. If you stand behind them & you see shoulders - not good.
Horned head is wide on top, but doesn't mean it has to be wide all over. Short stubby head is not good.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

I went and had a look at the local Fleck bulls. Not bad stock (and yep, it is papered stuff) and they certainly wouldn't be hard calving (heads weren't much bigger than a polled animal). I was a little disappointed in this breeders bull's hind ends. Not really what I was looking for, and his bulls also had too much body white. That increases the risk of a rat tailed grey from my black cows, and you get killed at the auction market on those

Is there such a thing as a Red Factor Fleck?

Rod

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Don't know what you mean Red Factor Flecks.
Fleckvieh Simmental are red, and they don't carry the diluter gene (like the Swiss & French Simmentals). If they are pure Flecks that is.
That's why they are very popular breeding Flecks with black Simmental - they don't get greys. But their biggest attribute is USUALLY their muscling. If his bulls don't have good rear quarters - I'd pass. Butts and loins are where the money is.
Also, if they are SPOTTED - the packers will usually discount you saying they are "hard doers" (which is perceived from the old large framed Simmentals that people backgrounded than tried to finish).

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Fleckvieh Simmental are red, and they don't carry the diluter gene (like the Swiss & French Simmentals). If they are pure Flecks that is.

This is what I needed to know. This breeder swear these were pure Fleck bulls, but they had alot of white on their bodies. That tells me they've got the diluter gene in there somewhere, correct? Shouldn't a pure Fleck be pretty much all red, except the face?

Rod

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

The American Flecks are mostly solid red, but Flecks have white legs, bellie, face, tail, and occasional small spots. White anyplace does not indicate diluter gene. But, lots of white body spots may indicate they have fullblood simmental other than Fleck simmental and if so, yes they could carry the diluter gene.
Does he have any yellow cattle in his herd? That's diluted. Light red does not necessarily mean diluted, but yellow is.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

No yellow in the herd at all. Just reds. Alot of white on the belly, but no spots on the body. White face with goggles, some white on the tail.

I guess it doesn't matter, as I won't be buying from him, but it is nice to know some danger signs if someone is attempting to sell a pure Fleck to me. I've got more to look at yet. Thanks Jeanne.

Rod