First time breeding.. Trying to find a good bull.

[ford_cowgirl]

I bought my first heifer in January and she is now 14 months old. The person I bought her from said that she is old enough to breed and she should have a calf by her side by her 2nd birthday. My dad said she isnt old enough yet. What is your opinion? She weighs about 750lbs now. I would like to breed her this year if she is old enough but I'm having a hard time trying to decide on a bull. We are going to go the AI route because there are not many registered PB Simmental bulls in my area. She is a Registered 1/2 Simmental. I have 2 bulls picked out and I was wondering if anyone could help me understand the calving ease and birthweight. This is all new to me and I'm trying to figure it out on my own. The 2 bulls that I have picked out:
http://cattlevisions.com/Simmental/REMI ... KnLOAD.php

And

http://cattlevisions.com/Simmental/Drake%20Heatwave.php

I have someone who knows how to AI and I already have everything set up. Now I just got to find a sire. Which bull would be the best to breed to and if you have any other ideas for me Im open to those too.

Thank you very much

 

[BRAFORDMAN]

It would help if you had a picture of her.

And WELCOME!!!!! :welcome:

 

[ALACOWMAN]

registerd 1/2 simmental?? whats the other 1/2

 

[pdfangus]

750 lbs is just on the edge of being big enough.

A heifer needs to be 60% of her mature weight before breeding. sort of depends on how big her moma was and her daddy as well.

I have angus and i like mine to be 850 to 900 when I breed them at about 15 months old and they calve as two year olds. have had a couple calve on their own birthday.

I know nothing of simmental pedigrees but basically for a heifer you want the lowest birthweight number and a higher CED number. shape of the bull is important as well, and the epd numbers for a heifer bull need to be based on progeny and have a good accuracy.

 

[andrews29]

has she started having heats ? Birth WT looks high for a first time owner and first time mom. think i would keep looking

 

[pdfangus]

I bought my first heifer in January and she is now 14 months old. The person I bought her from said that she is old enough to breed and she should have a calf by her side by her 2nd birthday. My dad said she isnt old enough yet. What is your opinion? She weighs about 750lbs now. I would like to breed her this year if she is old enough but I'm having a hard time trying to decide on a bull. We are going to go the AI route because there are not many registered PB Simmental bulls in my area. She is a Registered 1/2 Simmental. I have 2 bulls picked out and I was wondering if anyone could help me understand the calving ease and birthweight. This is all new to me and I'm trying to figure it out on my own. The 2 bulls that I have picked out:
http://cattlevisions.com/Simmental/REMI ... KnLOAD.php

And

http://cattlevisions.com/Simmental/Drake%20Heatwave.php

I have someone who knows how to AI and I already have everything set up. Now I just got to find a sire. Which bull would be the best to breed to and if you have any other ideas for me Im open to those too.

Thank you very much

just based on epds

I would look at this one. I scanned the performance info and sorted for birthweight and then picked the best yearling weight above breed average. they have a calf photo up of the bull but he was a show bull. would like to see a photo of him mature and possibly some progeny info and photos.

http://cattlevisions.com/Simmental/HooksPharoah.php

 

[Till-Hill]

I'd 2nd Pharoh. Shear Force son that Oak Meadow Farms in Harmony, MN own. I have a PB daughter of his and I really like her. 750 lbs is plenty big. 900 lb angus heifers at breeding is a waste of feed IMO. That means 1500 lb mature cows. Way to big unless you got lots of feed. I like my first calf heifers when I wean their calf to be around 950-1250lbs.

Why not use a SimAngus bull if she is a half blood tho? Keep more hybred vigor in a half blood than a 3/4 blood......

 

[piedmontese]

if shes 750 lbs thats plenty big enuff.is she's not even a fullblood then y not go with a good angus bull and get the best calving ease? i know u may be wanting to breed up to a purebred sim but i know a nice,small,lively calf of any x is better than a purebred dead giant.breed her to a sim for her 2nd calf.

 

[cow pollinater]

pdfangus is right in my opinion.
I wouldn't use either of the bulls you chose on a heifer unless I was breeding a hundred or more and a few of them were mated to that specific bull while the rest were mated to a true calving ease bull.(in which case a customer would only be taking a 10% risk instead of a bet the farm risk). One is not a true calving ease bull and the other is low reliability, which you can't trust.
Think of genetics in terms of the people you know. Everyone starts out as the son or daughter of two people and we expect them to be the average of those two people. From that vantage point, every full brother and sister should behave within the same pattern... I have a sister and you'd have a hard time picking us out as being related.
We have to see how the individual performs and then how well they pass it along before we really know who the good ones are.
For a heifer from a breed like simmental or charolais, I'd look for a reliability(the number below the score for that particular trait) of at least.65 before I'd consider it a safe gamble for breeding to a single heifer that was a one and only chance at a calf. With a true calving ease breed I'd be willing to take a little more risk.

 

[ford_cowgirl]

I just sent her papers in today to get the transfered into my name so I cant remember what her other breed crosses were but I know shes also Maine Anjou and the other breed code is MX (Anyone know what that is?) What are some good calving ease breeds? I would like to breed her to a simmental but I'm re-thinking a purebred. I would go with a simmental cross. This is my first time owning a heifer (besides bucket calves) So im not sure if she has starting heats yet but I have done some research and based on what I have found they dont come into visible heat unless they are around a bull. Is this true? I also found that when you AI a heifer you use CIDR and Lutalyse to bring them into heat. I will look into other simmental crossed breeds. Thank you.

 

[andrews29]

you dont have to have a bull to see heats a cow or steer will do the same your looking for her to stand and let another cow or steer mount her. If your using just lute this is what you will look for. As others have stated i would use a angus bull there are several that have great growth with low birth wts and great calving ease.

 

[JustSimmental]

Ford Cowgirl,

Cattle Visions has some weak sires --always has......

Go to the Simm website and hopefully you are a member and log in.

Go to herd Mgmt Tab and go to Pmating Single

Enter your heifers Reg # and the bull of your choice's #

This will give you a good idea of what the progeny will be based on EPD's

That being said, 750 lb, 14 month old heifer sounds fine for breeding. Remember this one point:
The whole idea behind breeding a heifer at 14-15 months is to get her "started" in her new life in a production cow herd. Her first calf probably (not always) will NOT be the best she will ever have due to her age, etc...... What we do, here, is to breed heifers to a "proven Calving ease sire", so that her first calf experience is a good one.

Forget the big semen companies ---- and look into Gateway Simmental;
http://www.gatewaysimmental.com/sirepage.htm; specifically GW Predestined 701T--

His first calf crop (2 yr old Bulls / that sold in Feb 2011) brought over $5000/hd on average.
His "proven numbers" are the best in the business. As you know Simm/angus, do not have a CE EPD, but his BW is -4.6--------- His Reg # is 2414537.
http://herdbook.simmental.org/simmapp/template/animalSearch,AnimalSearch.vm


Welcome to the board and Simmental.

JS

 

[Amo]

One of your steer bucket calves should be able to pick out a heat.

 

[vclavin]

Your vet can give you an idea if she is ready physically and with a reproductive tract score and pelvic measurement , he can tell if she is ready to breed so you won't be pulling calves due to small pelic size.
Valerie

 

[Lucky_P]

No way I'd use either of those bulls on a heifer; wouldn't even use that Drake bull on my mature cows.

If you're committed to CattleVisions bulls, Hooks Shear Force or Hooks Pharoah would be my picks from their Sim lineup. Other than those two bulls, they just don't have much there that fits my purposes - but I'm not in the 'show' business, or even the registered game, anymore.
We've been using Dikeman's Sure Bet, an ABS bull, for a couple of years - low BW/high CED, good maternal calving ease,but has good growth, ribeye, marbling, tenderness, and is in the top 1 or 2% of the breed for API and TI. Really like the ones we've had so far - and I'd sure classify him as a 'heifer' bull. He's got a low milk epd, but that's a 'plus' for my herd.
Had been looking at 'Olie', another ABS Simmental bull, to use on some AngusXShorthorn heifers, but believe I might stick with Sure Bet or one of the two Hooks bulls discussed earlier - for a steer that'll either produce a good carcass or make a good productive cow down the road.

Actually, I'm working toward breeding a Shear Force son out of a Sure Bet daughter to retain for use as a clean-up sire after AI - should be safe on heifers, should be a decent 'terminal' sire, and daughters wouldn't necessarily be 'throw-aways'.

 

[Till-Hill]

If you are going to use Shear Force I would find some semen fast. He died and according to the reps I got everything they had in my area plus what they had at headquarters. I don't think there is alot of inventory out there left. Still priced at $18 tho. Pharoh will do a good job. Jumpstart at Select is a great choice or Ranch Hand @ ABS. Like everyone else is saying do not give up any calving ease for a heifer breeding. Plenty of good calving ease bulls out there to make a good calf.

 

[Lucky_P]

TH,
I saw Shear Force had jumped from $18 to $35 at CV; Didn't know he'd gone on to the Big Pasture.
He's disappeared from the list at a couple other semen suppliers that used to have semen on him.

 

[JustSimmental]

The problem with Shear Force is WW, YW, CW and MM. What I try to do is to not just breed cows/heifers based on 2 or 3 epd's of economic importance, but to better balance an individual's future offspring without giving up too much.

For example, using Shear Force on a PB SM Avg MM cow/heifer of 4.0 will take her offspring up from a 4 (which is enough already) to a 9.0 MM--which just made that offspring a higher maintenance individual--- and not something you would want to retain in a production cow unit. Along with the increased maintenance costs you also have inherited low growth in the WW and YW categories--which are what "most" producers strive to IMPROVE.
On the other hand his carcass merits are really good in REA and Marb, BF is normal for PBSM's, but CW is pretty awful, which again is something most producers strive to improve on.

I have not ever used Shear Force due to his really really small birth weights, which leans too far in the negative direction and is unnecessary (calves the size of 55 lbs is unneeded); his terrible WW and YW EPD's (25% below average for PBSM's) and terrible MM (that produces replacements that tend to be high maintenance).

This is a good example of going too far to the left or right within the genetics. Just like CNS Dream On, who was also a G 151 Son; shows EPD's similar to HSF in many ways. The G 151 Legacy bull was a Transitional sire back in the day when Simmental was trying to decrease BW's and increase CE. In their day they were the best bulls to utilize when trying to decrease the BW traits.

Their are a lot of good bulls out there today in the PBSM category, so that "we" don't have to rely on those older transitional bulls that would only improve 2-3 traits at a time. A more balanced individual would be a better choice than either those older sires.

HSF
CE: 19.3
BW: -4.8
WW: 25
YW: 47
MCE: 7.3
MM: 14.0
MWW: 26.4
Stay: 24.3
CW: - 16.8
YG: -0.17
Marb: 0.60
BF: 0.04
REA: 0.65
Shr: -0.61
API: 166
TI: 79


JS

 

[MF135]

The problem with Shear Force is WW, YW, CW and MM. What I try to do is to not just breed cows/heifers based on 2 or 3 epd's of economic importance, but to better balance an individual's future offspring without giving up too much.

For example, using Shear Force on a PB SM Avg MM cow/heifer of 4.0 will take her offspring up from a 4 (which is enough already) to a 9.0 MM--which just made that offspring a higher maintenance individual--- and not something you would want to retain in a production cow unit. Along with the increased maintenance costs you also have inherited low growth in the WW and YW categories--which are what "most" producers strive to IMPROVE.
On the other hand his carcass merits are really good in REA and Marb, BF is normal for PBSM's, but CW is pretty awful, which again is something most producers strive to improve on.

I have not ever used Shear Force due to his really really small birth weights, which leans too far in the negative direction and is unnecessary (calves the size of 55 lbs is unneeded); his terrible WW and YW EPD's (25% below average for PBSM's) and terrible MM (that produces replacements that tend to be high maintenance).

This is a good example of going too far to the left or right within the genetics. Just like CNS Dream On, who was also a G 151 Son; shows EPD's similar to HSF in many ways. The G 151 Legacy bull was a Transitional sire back in the day when Simmental was trying to decrease BW's and increase CE. In their day they were the best bulls to utilize when trying to decrease the BW traits.

Their are a lot of good bulls out there today in the PBSM category, so that "we" don't have to rely on those older transitional bulls that would only improve 2-3 traits at a time. A more balanced individual would be a better choice than either those older sires.

HSF
CE: 19.3
BW: -4.8
WW: 25
YW: 47
MCE: 7.3
MM: 14.0
MWW: 26.4
Stay: 24.3
CW: - 16.8
YG: -0.17
Marb: 0.60
BF: 0.04r
REA: 0
Shr: -0.61
API: 166
TI: 79


JS

If EPDs had 100% accuracies, you word would be gold. Unfortunately, they don't. Without a REAL base value and accurate changes from that base value, indices are USELESS.