Fescue Toxicosis

[dave_shelby]

I did a stream exclusion program 18 months back through Lord Fairfax SWCD. This was all well and good except the cattle cannot get to water to cool off from fescue. They end up creating mud pits for themselves and look like pigs. Its worse yet because we rotationally graze, moving every 3 days (and in spring every 1-2 days) so the mud pits are multiplying.

The pastures are mainly fescue with some orchard grass, clover, chicory, plantain and other forbs. I frost seeded clover in last winter in the places where its thin but its too early to see any impact. The worst offenders are going to get culled and I am slowly moving to Red Angus and South Poll.

So I need some more immediate advice. I see there are a number of minerals that are advertised to diminish the impact of fescue. Do they work and are they worth it? Cargills Fescue EMT is running 45 dollars a bag - 3x the price of high mag. Anything else that can be done?

 

[Ebenezer]

Select the right genetics.

 

[simme]

Fescue is a miracle and a curse. I think you will notice that some animals tolerate fescue better than others. You can cull based on tolerance. Some suffer greatly, don't shed, and stand in water much of the time. It seems that animals not raised on fescue suffer more based on purchase of animals from non fescue areas. Some appear to tolerate it.

There is the non-endophyte fescue available, but expensive and time consuming to convert and longevity of stand is suspect on the new fescues.

I have not used the "fescue" minerals, so I don't have any useful feedback on them. But, I am skeptical of the results and afraid of the price. I think selection of tolerant animals is best, but limits your ability to select bulls. Trial and error is expensive and frustrating.

 

[dave_shelby]

I should have added that I did plant, BarOptima, on of the modified endophyte fescue varieties in another field. That said, I would not plant that variety again as it showed poor vigor, tillering and lower overall growth. Some of that might be due to the fact that its a soft leaf variety and cows will eat it to the ground. I am renovating another pasture now with a summer annual and going to try MaxQ + some variety of OG, cost permitting.

All of these cattle were purchased in fescue belt. I'll be culling. Among the worst of the cattle are two cows purchased from Ginger Hill Angus who advertise that their cattle are fescue tolerant. Its the sunk cost fallacy at work because I haven't culled them yet despite falling back from failure to breed.

 

[sstterry]

Hi Mag mineral can help some.

 

[BFE]

Select the right genetics.

I've never owned a slick coated cow who didn't do good in my environment. Had plenty with rough coats who did bad.

I should have added that I did plant, BarOptima, on of the modified endophyte fescue varieties in another field. That said, I would not plant that variety again as it showed poor vigor, tillering and lower overall growth. Some of that might be due to the fact that its a soft leaf variety and cows will eat it to the ground. I am renovating another pasture now with a summer annual and going to try MaxQ + some variety of OG, cost permitting.

All of these cattle were purchased in fescue belt. I'll be culling. Among the worst of the cattle are two cows purchased from Ginger Hill Angus who advertise that their cattle are fescue tolerant. Its the sunk cost fallacy at work because I haven't culled them yet despite falling back from failure to breed.

There's a reason KY31 is so vigorous. It's easier to match the animal to the environment than vice versa.

That's interesting. I've looked at Ginger Hill, wondering how their stock would do. Thanks for the info.

 

[Little Joe]

I did a stream exclusion program 18 months back through Lord Fairfax SWCD. This was all well and good except the cattle cannot get to water to cool off from fescue. They end up creating mud pits for themselves and look like pigs. Its worse yet because we rotationally graze, moving every 3 days (and in spring every 1-2 days) so the mud pits are multiplying.

The pastures are mainly fescue with some orchard grass, clover, chicory, plantain and other forbs. I frost seeded clover in last winter in the places where its thin but its too early to see any impact. The worst offenders are going to get culled and I am slowly moving to Red Angus and South Poll.

So I need some more immediate advice. I see there are a number of minerals that are advertised to diminish the impact of fescue. Do they work and are they worth it? Cargills Fescue EMT is running 45 dollars a bag - 3x the price of high mag. Anything else that can be done?

The South Poll I believe to be a good choice, but make sure to get South Polls that are being raised on Fescue and are doing well on it. A lady I know bought some Red Angus X South Poll heifers and she said a few were not performing well on fescue but she believed it to be because the place she bought them from had nothing but bermuda therefore these heifers had never built that tolerance for fescue. There's an old man up the road from me that has a herd of red angus and about all they eat is fescue and his cows are always slick and fat. They're a good deep bodied moderate framed cow. He also stockpiles fescue to graze them through the winter. I've thought about buying some heifers from him.

 

[dave_shelby]

I am firmly in the fescue belt but get your point on buying cattle raised the way you want. Here there hard part if getting an honest sale. That said, I bought just four red angus, and I have been quite happy with them, fat buts and wide guts. And so easy to work in the chute.

Side story. There are three 80-something year old fellows who farm 1500 or 2500 acres maybe more that are more or less a local legend here. Low input, and not the rotationally grazed kind of way to understand that phrase either. Their equipment would be considered old 30 years ago. They make do or do without. Bale hay - if you can call it that - 8 months of the year. Their pastures are seem hardly improved, lots of broomsedge. But apparently they are making money. They run small-medium frame cows that wean a 400-450 pound calf. I just got to wondering, they handle fescue and poor grasses - might be something there.

 

[Aero]

If waterways were excluded, how are they finding more mud?

Start culling - whether it's fescue or any other reason. Björn Johansson said that you might have a hard time picking out your best cows but it's usually pretty easy to pick out your worst. Start there and don't ask why they aren't working - it doesnt matter. This is why I try to see how a breeder operates a herd instead of worrying about the animal itself. Find someone who is doing things the way you should be and buy from them if you are looking at new genetics.

 

[faster horses]

Vigortone has fescue products that work really well. We don't have fescue, so we haven't used it, but the reports from those that do are excellent. I can't give you a price because you are a long ways away. Here are their products tho:
Fescue Balancer
Fescue EMT
Fescue EMT CG (contains Cinnagar)
Fescue Balancer Remedy CTC(will need a VFD)
Fescue Balancer Remedy CTC-6000

There is some with IGR and some to help with ANAPLAZ.
Doesn't look like the products without CTC are $45/bag but freight plays a big difference.
Good luck!!
You can see if there is a dealer near you.
www.vigortone.com

 

[dave_shelby]

If waterways were excluded, how are they finding more mud?

They stand in one place, usually water point, and their urine and manure make mud.

Seems like I'll be culling.

@ faster horses. I'm going to look at vigortone. Thanks.

 

[Logan52]

Here in the heart of fescue country, KY 31 was originally identified growing wild not that far from here, I have had to deal with this for over 50 years.
I long ago gave up trying to eliminate it, I just try to live with it.
It is hard on the cows and sheep, both spend the summer daylight hours in a barn or cool shady place. Calf and lamb performance takes a dive during the worst of it.
If I bring in a well bred cow that is really slick she gets a rough hair coat and loses condition when milking. After a year or so many of them seem to adapt, some do not.
I have little to add other than promote clover and grasses besides fescue in your pastures despite the fact they will continue to be dominated by the fescue. Straight stands of orchard grass revert to fescue after about five years.
Culling helps and cattle and sheep raised on the farm seem to grow up with a tolerance for it and never be affected as bad as brought in stock. Lots of shade seems to help. I do not know about the mineral supplements. They always seemed to be high in cost for an operation like mine and unlikely to be cost effective.
I still wean 600 lb. plus calves in early September from January born calves and 100 lb. lambs in May from January born lambs. Being born early is essential for these weights.

 

[kenny thomas]

I have and promote Ky31 because of the ability to stockpile but the only way I have been able to do anything that seems to help is to clip the fescue seed heads early in the season. For here that is usually about the 3rd week of May.
I actually turn mine back into a pond during the hottest weather. But my project was not through the SWCD.
I'm slowly changing over to red cows and even bought a couple with some ear this weekend.

 

[dave_shelby]

Well Kenny if you know of some good red angus let me know.

 

[Aero]

I'm slowly changing over to red cows and even bought a couple with some ear this weekend.

You should give brown cows a look - dark brown in the winter, light brown-cream colored in the summer.

Aubrac — Bedias Creek Farm

www.bediascreekfarms.com

 

[kenny thomas]

You should give brown cows a look - dark brown in the winter, light brown-cream colored in the summer.

Aubrac — Bedias Creek Farm

www.bediascreekfarms.com

Do you have some for sale. I was in NC yesterday and will be again tomorrow.

 

[Ebenezer]

Available forms of copper in the minerals in adequate levels was the big breakthrough in dealing with KY31 some years back based on research by, I think, Dr. Warren Gill. Correct me on that if you know the real person. But Zn needs to be in balance with the Cu. Some of the info was in the AJ and other cattle publications back then.

Some of the newer efforts in minerals put capsaicin (hot element of red pepper) to increase blood flow to extremities. It affects the constriction of blood flow... Again, what I remember reading.

This issue is one reason I feel that the AAA hair score EPDs will be faulty or less dependable: they do not know if cattle are grazing fescue or not.

 

[Aero]

Do you have some for sale. I was in NC yesterday and will be again tomorrow.

Well this kills me. No live animals for sale here but some past the Mississippi.

I have quite a bit of semen available but that probably isnt what you're looking for...

 

[Aero]

This issue is one reason I feel that the AAA hair score EPDs will be faulty or less dependable: they do not know if cattle are grazing fescue or not.

My suspicion is that ability to shed, means very little in determining how an animal will do on fescue - it just means that the animal is functioning well in its environment. If its environment includes a good dose of fescue, then when that animal sheds quickly it is probably happy with the environment. A good shedder at least shows you it is able to shed quickly if everything is right.