Ferappease

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Lucky said:
Good post. The reason I ask about the others catching up is because we keep ours so long. 10# a day and hay is allot of feed but I'm sure it pays off. We feed ours 6.5# @$1 a day and very little if any hay. We just try and let them grow frame through the winter and be ready for the spring green up.

I agree on cutting corners to save money. It definitely becomes second nature. Everyone these days has a calculator in their pocket but few use it.
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It boggles my mind. I don't understand how it is more beneficial to feed 6.5#/day vs 10#/day for a longer time. If you don't feed them to their potential growth from day #1, you are lowering their growth curve. I have always been taught to keep the growth curve high/steady for quickest/best finish and best marbling if you are looking at steers.
10#/day for 60 days is 600#. How many days are you feeding 6.5#? OBAX is probably paying less than $100 + hay. You said you are spending $1/day on grain. Are you "really" making more money keeping them longer and putting them out on grass?
I'm not arguing. Just trying to understand how spending $1/day all winter makes up for the "free" growth on grass vs just pushing them for potential growth and get rid of them ASAP. Time is $. Also, growth on grass time is really not FREE. And the longer you keep them, the more chances of health expenses, and death loss.
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley said:
It boggles my mind. I don't understand how it is more beneficial to feed 6.5#/day vs 10#/day for a longer time. If you don't feed them to their potential growth from day #1, you are lowering their growth curve. I have always been taught to keep the growth curve high/steady for quickest/best finish and best marbling if you are looking at steers.
10#/day for 60 days is 600#. How many days are you feeding 6.5#? OBAX is probably paying less than $100 + hay. You said you are spending $1/day on grain. Are you "really" making more money keeping them longer and putting them out on grass?
I'm not arguing. Just trying to understand how spending $1/day all winter makes up for the "free" growth on grass vs just pushing them for potential growth and get rid of them ASAP. Time is $. Also, growth on grass time is really not FREE. And the longer you keep them, the more chances of health expenses, and death loss.
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I've tried pushing them harder and getting rid of them sooner but get docked for "fleshy" calves. Seems like in our market they want long weaned "thin fleshed" calves. Also our target selling weight is 800#. I seriously doubt you could get a five weight to 800# in 60 days. We've tried several different methods and just found this works best for us. We do bump their feed up to around 8# by the time the grass comes on. We just watch their growth and do what we think they need.
 
Lucky said:
I've tried pushing them harder and getting rid of them sooner but get docked for "fleshy" calves. Seems like in our market they want long weaned "thin fleshed" calves. Also our target selling weight is 800#. I seriously doubt you could get a five weight to 800# in 60 days. We've tried several different methods and just found this works best for us. We do bump their feed up to around 8# by the time the grass comes on. We just watch their growth and do what we think they need.
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Lucky it is the same here. The barn owner where we sell most reminds me at least once a year to not get them too fleshy. We have a couple of times and got docked. Sometimes hard to keep from it on good wheat.
 
I see the same thing that Lucky and elk do. When I background my weaned calves in the warm months, they get very little grain. Really just enough to get them eating good. I am just wanting them to get healthy, & weaned good (hardened). Maybe put on some frame. Getting them fat is a money loser. Gaining a pound and a half a day is okay if the inputs are minimal.
 
bird dog said:
I see the same thing that Lucky and elk do. When I background my weaned calves in the warm months, they get very little grain. Really just enough to get them eating good. I am just wanting them to get healthy, & weaned good (hardened). Maybe put on some frame. Getting them fat is a money loser. Gaining a pound and a half a day is okay if the inputs are minimal.
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We are usually at 1.3-1.5 pounds a day when it's all said and done. I don't think they gain much if any for the first 20 days after weaning. Through the winter they'll gain fairly good but go backwards some on really cold and rainy days, they gain really good April through June but once the heat hits them they slow down. Our calves seem to do really well at sale time and our rep keeps telling whatever we're doing to stick with it.

I have kept them until mid August when the market was down in July but honestly don't think they gained at all in July and August. It's too hot and the grass loses punch.
 
Agree with you Lucky. On my never ending pursuit of gains and no shrink it usually works something like this
trailer weaned -- shrink will run 8 to 12% . You are taking a $100 hit for each 500 lb calf and giving the cash to the buyer.
weaned 15 to 20 days -- They will recover most of the weaning loss but selling shrink will still be 6 to 10%. This shrink is easily gained back by the buyer
30 to 45 days-- They will gain enough to cover the smaller shrink of 4 to 7%. Some will have a gain. One trip to the hay ring and water trough will recover this.
45 to 60 days -- You will have gain of 1 to 1 1/2 lbs per day depending on the season. Shrink can be managed down to 3% if they know how to drink from a trough.
60 + days is when they really start putting on some weight and will hold most of it through the selling period even when its hot provided they have a chance to drink.
These calves will travel well and go right back to eating and gaining as soon as feed is put in front of them.

On older calves, water is the big factor on sale barn shrink. Calves fed before they go to the sale and put in a pen with a easily accessible water source shrink very little.

Your mileage may vary.
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley said:
It boggles my mind. I don't understand how it is more beneficial to feed 6.5#/day vs 10#/day for a longer time. If you don't feed them to their potential growth from day #1, you are lowering their growth curve. I have always been taught to keep the growth curve high/steady for quickest/best finish and best marbling if you are looking at steers.
10#/day for 60 days is 600#. How many days are you feeding 6.5#? OBAX is probably paying less than $100 + hay. You said you are spending $1/day on grain. Are you "really" making more money keeping them longer and putting them out on grass?
I'm not arguing. Just trying to understand how spending $1/day all winter makes up for the "free" growth on grass vs just pushing them for potential growth and get rid of them ASAP. Time is $. Also, growth on grass time is really not FREE. And the longer you keep them, the more chances of health expenses, and death los
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I do believe in growing steers as fast as possible. That being said, I'm only feeding my steers 60 days, 75 at the most before I market them. I really cannot get them too fleshy and fat in that timeframe, so I try to feed them to gain for my advantage. But on the replacement heifers that I keep until breeding age, I see that they indeed do catch up by 14 to 16 months of age without being too fat that it affects their breeding ability. The heifers will grow in structure rather than just in pounds.
If I was keeping my steers to finish, I believe there would be an advantage for me to grow them the same way.
It all comes down to maximize your check according to when your calves go to market.
 
tex452 said:
I talked to my cousin and his son's yesterday, he said they started using it 6 months ago and that it works very good.
They run several thousand head every year.
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Are these cattle they buy or all home raised?
 
tex452 said:
Mostly bought
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I have been told by several producers who process both home raised and bought calves. All have stated that they have found little benefit on home raised calves but have seen benefit on bought calves from a sale barn. Some of these producers process large numbers. One has a starting lot. In our case we only wean home raised docile calves.
 
Having used on both acquired calves and home raised weaning calves, I have seen benefits on not just demeanor, but mainly the weight gain and health benefits.
Stress occurs at weaning whether a calf is moved across the county or across the fence. Sometimes it's harder to see if they are not wild and flighty, but that stress is there and it can negatively effect their health.
That's what the product was intended for and I believe it does a good job at keeping more calves healthy.
 
The results from the starting kit was very informative. They have processed a very high volume and have weights on treated and untreated home raised and bought calves. The data backed up what we saw.
 
I stated earlier when we sold the calves I would post the results we saw and my impressions. I want to state I feel it is a good product for certain situations. I don't feel it is a miracle drug. I will likely try it in a few specific cases. We watch our costs so any thing we do or use has to prove it is beneficial in our program.
We sold the treated and non treated calves Tuesday. No noticeable difference in gain. The only calf we doctored was in the group that had 12cc applied. We still have the heifers. So will update on them later. At this point I see no increased gain on the treated calves. I feel on flighty calves and calves bought at a sale barn it would be beneficial. Like I was told before I tried it I would likely find no benefit on our docile calves that are used to human interaction. Those who process 20,000 plus every year have seen results similar to ours. So hard for me too justify $4.00 cost of product and an extra trip through the chute. This is just our experience and our opinions. I would encourage anyone considering it too try it in their operation on their cattle and decide if it works for them.
 

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