Feet

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redcowsrule33

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Back in the linebred Angus thread dun said:

"I was talking to Clint Berry the commercial marketing director from the Red Angus association and he said the single biggest complaint he hears about Red Angus is feet. We haven;t had a problem with feet but we are real sticklers about foot and leg structure on the cows and whatever we market as breeders."

This is not the first time I have heard this. So, I went out and compared my Simmis to my Red Angus. Although all have very functional feet (we do not trim) as a group I liked the Simmis form better.

As a long time commercial person but novice seedstock breeder, I am asking those who know: what bulls/lines in RA throw the best feet/legs and who doesn't? I wouldn't be afraid to list the poor ones since if the problem is bad enough for our marketing director to admit it we need to work on this as breed.
 
Both Red and Black Angus are not especialy great footed-Dylan Biggs has a couple bulls are black red gene carriers that are extremely good footed and seem to pass it on but not sure exactly whats lines they are.

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This is the bull were going to run this year after A'I-he's one of those bulls from Dylan's I was talking about.
 
Those are wonderful pictures. Would be curious to see what they looked like from a profile, most especially to see on the back of the foot. The point I try to look for is where the hairline and top of the hoof meet on the back of the hoof. A lot of cattle don't have much distance from that point to the ground. A good number of the cattle that I have found to have good distances from this point to the ground have had a white face.
 
Those are feet from a very good footed Angus bull. Didn't Dylan have some cattle from Crowfoot Cattle Co?
 
Excellent feet, wish they were all that way. Our Forster Gold 3109 throws feet similar to that. There are definately a few lines that don't do that. I have red and blacks and have had more problems in the past with the blacks, but I watch feet pretty carefully.
 
Dallas has run a few bulls from Dylan over the years-I'm sure they've used each others genetics but can't be certain.
 
Dallas has run a few bulls from Dylan over the years-I'm sure they've used each others genetics but can't be certain.
 
This bull that NR posted foot photos of is TKRA 142T. First calves on the ground now. He gets his good feet from both sides of his pedigree.

Bottom side is TKRA 248H a Crowfoot Logan 649 sired daughter, Sire and Dam both had excellent feet. 248H's dam SMRA 428U Six Mile Gloria cow family had perfect feet, sired by the outcross Red Idared Starfire bull Ken Fraser used in the eighties.

The top side sire is TKRA 61P that bred at Crowfoot last year and is now breeding in the Minburn herd. Topside he is sired by a Quantum 3330 son Badlands Quantum 66K who had absolutely perfect feet. 61P's dam was sired by our old Pounmaker 69Z bull who sired good feet. He was a Bflo Creek Chief VC 105 son out of a Six Mile Connection 5R cow SMRA 418U that had perfect feet also.

So 142T comes by his feet honestly.

So far he seems like he will be a growth type bull. We have a number of powerful calves on the ground.

I will get a shot of 142T so you can see the type he is.
 
Here is a recent photo of TKRA 142T and a photo of his scrotal development. The brown tail in the photo is the bull hiding behind him. NR posted the photos of his feet from this winter.
He has been on pasture for the last month and as you can see he is almost slicked off.


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I would stay away from the Leachman King Rob influenced cattle if you are worried about long toes and a lack of depth of heel. Not saying they all have bad feet, but they don't have exceptionally good feet, and they will throw offspring that leave a lot to be desired with some consistency.

The Six Mile and Crowfoot cattle seem to have good feet. Ole Farms does too. Not sure about the good or bad of anything else at this point.
 
Dylan,

What is the female like that this bull is out of? I like the looks of the bull in his working clothes. What about his registration number and performance information? What sort of females is this bull designed to work on (heifers, cows, British, Continental etc.) to make cows? Just wondering.
 
VLS_GUY":302at1lv said:
Dylan,

What is the female like that this bull is out of? I like the looks of the bull in his working clothes. What about his registration number and performance information? What sort of females is this bull designed to work on (heifers, cows, British, Continental etc.) to make cows? Just wondering.

VLS thanks, I think the bull looks the part and is worth putting to the test. I am too cheap to buy our bulls a set of formal dress clothes.
Besides once some one is dressed up pretentious illusion starts to set in, my dear wife claims once I am dressed up I am even half presentable. Canadian reg# 1528630. He is a black red carrier. His dam was TKRA 248H, 142T was her last calf as a nine year old. She came open and was shipped. 248H in terms of her production was consistent middle of the herd producer. Structurally in terms of feet and udder she was extremely sound. Frame 5 cow not super easy fleshing but not a hard keeper either. I bred 142T to all my heifers commercial and purebred last year and he is not a bull I would use again on heifers under a range calving program.
So far his calves on the ground, individual phenotype and pedigree would indicate he will sire middle of the road frame, above average BW, above average muscle, should be an udder and foot improver. He has excellent scrotal and epidydimal tail development, shape and symmetry, and corollary semen quality, libido and breeding ability. Should also be a disposition improver. I have never made any attempt to turn him into a pet and yet you can walk up to him in the pasture and scratch him. This is the same as his sire.
Photo of his sire TKRA 61P taken this spring.
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Dylan,

I see that the red cow he is out of suffers from no EPD-itis. What I mean by this is that the genetic worth of a no EPD animal is usually discounted by EPD calculation methods across all breeds. Look at the imported bulls from say Australia for an example. What I would like to see for this bull is a progeny test where he is bred to say 50 good grade cows of all breeds so his worth to the commercial man can be determined up against the big time AI bulls in the Red and Black Angus. I do not trust our EPDs because they were calculated on purebred herds for all breeds for the commercial cattle man with crossbred cows this doesn't always translate into a reliable measure of performance to be expected from a bull and it hurts credibility.
He certainly is no ABS headliner- a red carrier, out of a no EPD cow and he does not have the big name bulls in his pedigree for marketability. But given the problems with genetic defects, and functionality that selection by superficial marketing wisdom has created may be his time has come. I would emphasize his worth to the commercial beef business not the cocktail click. How about putting him in a commercial herd and see how he does on say some simmy or char based cows in a feeding trial (steers)?
This is the sort of thing i would have done with NRs bull Lad.
 
lad has been mostly used in commercial herds just like this bull will be. Selling semen to the fickle nature of the purebred business has never been part of my game plan. If purebred breeders see some worth in the genetics we market that is fine but my market target is the commercial man. we sold two loads of british cross cows to a big ranch just north of dylan's that were bred mostly too Lad-I'm not sure if they sold the calves after backgrounding or took them all the way to finish. I'll be glad when this cancer deal gets over so I can get back to business as usual. I A'I'ed my first cow tonight in the year since they found the tumours-it was quite a night A'I'ed a longhorn heifer and got to do a bit of timber wolf hunting. That black bull will be going into my cows so we'll see how he works on Angus/Hereford/South Devon cross cows. I don't think I have a cow left with a smidgeon of exotic blood any more-a couple Brahma's though lol.
 
In my opinion the entire reason why the purebred cattle business exists is to produce bulls for commercial producers. Any purebred herdsire-AI bulls in particular ideally should be proven on grade cows before extensive use on purebred cows. This is a good reason to look at your bull customers calves. Not only to see what kind of calves your bulls are producing and meeting customer needs but also to se if they have the right stuff to be used by your own herd- a buy back in effect.
 

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