Feed Question

[chadreed88]

I have 60 pair of cross bred cattle and most have been calving for a month or so and will be calved out in about 3 more months. I have been feeding of course hay and loose minerals but cows just look poor. I feed 4 bags of cubes about 2 times a week. Is there another type of feed that you recommend that is any cheaper or that has better protein and fat? I've been paying about 13.75 a hundred for the cubes.

 

[jedstivers]

Have they been wormed? Has your hay been tested to know what you are dealing with? Do you mean 4 bags or 8 bags total per week? The very best thing to use would be whole cotton seed, after that are you in a area that you could get some kind of cheep by-product?

 

[chippie]

If your bags are 50 lb bags, that is 200 lbs. Divide that by 60 equals 3.3 lbs per cow. That really isn't very much for a nursing cow unless you have good quality hay. Do they have free choice hay?

What does the label on the bag recommend?

 

[deenranch]

Try putting out a good liquid feed... One with added fat... You should save some money cause you won't have to spend as much time feeding.... The dealer should have wheel lick tubs for your use... This will allow the cattle to utilize your hay and existing forages.. If you do use it, put it out pretty far from the hay... This way the cattle will travel and eat grass between the two.. Good luck

 

[BC]

You really need to get your hay analyzed. 8 bags of cubes for the week = 400 lbs. Divide that by 7 days and you get a tad over 57 lbs. With 60 cows that is just under 1 lb per day of cubes. I assume you are feeding 20% range cubes. That 1 lb of cubes is supplying an additional .2 lbs of protein to the cow. Without a forage test, we don't know how much you need to be feeding.

An 1100 lb cow in early lactation with average milk production needs 16.8 lbs of TDN and 2.9 lbs of protein. If the lactating cow is eating low quality forage (<52% TDN, 7% CP) she should be eating 2.2% of her body weight in hay (24.2 lbs) that supplies 12.6 lbs of TDN and 1.69 lbs of crude protein. Your low quality hay is shortchanging the cow by 4.2 lbs of TDN and 1.2 lbs of protein a day. If your cows are bigger then this amount will be even more, if they are smaller it will be less.

This next summer, try to raise or buy some higher quality hay. It may cost more to raise or buy, but will be cheaper in the long run to feed.

 

[bigbull338]

this winter has been real wett an cold.your not feeding the cows enough.you need tobe feeding 200lbs of cubes every other day along with protine tubbs.yes the tubbs are high but your cows need protine to maintain their body an produce milk for their calves.

 

[chadreed88]

Thanks for the reply's will give little more details. They do have 2 of the big cooked protein tubs available, salt blocks and I was giving cotton seed meal for awhile then just put out the cooked tubs. They have been wormed and I haven't had any hay tested this year although it is I know above average hay unless we had some severe change because we tested the same meadows last year and they were very good. I know it can change but don't see it being a real big difference then again I could be wrong because I'm fairly new to the cow/calf operation. Thanks

 

[bigbull338]

sounds like you are doing everything right.as i said we are having a rough winter.an that could be why your cows are looking so rough.ive got 10 protine tubbs out for 100hd.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Excellent hay makes all the difference in the world. Especially if you're cows are nursing through winter. Cheaper than buying all the supplemental feeds.

 

[grubbie]

A little off the subject here but,....holy crap, that's a looooong calving season!

 

[chadreed88]

Its 4 months because I bought cattle at different times

 

[novaman]

Now that you mention that these cattle were bought it changes things a bit. There is a possibility of disease like Johne's or the like. Buying cattle is dangerous IMO and since you say they don't look very good that would make me concerned. Not trying to scare you but there is always the possibility.

 

[1982vett]

Thanks for the reply's will give little more details. They do have 2 of the big cooked protein tubs available, salt blocks and I was giving cotton seed meal for awhile then just put out the cooked tubs. They have been wormed and I haven't had any hay tested this year although it is I know above average hay unless we had some severe change because we tested the same meadows last year and they were very good. I know it can change but don't see it being a real big difference then again I could be wrong because I'm fairly new to the cow/calf operation. Thanks

I'd have to say you are probably wrong. Last years hay test means very little towards this years hay crop or from one cut to the next for that matter. Spend the $10 to get it tested. If it is good and you know your feeding program is sufficient, then you have to look at health issues.

 

[Mare]

What is Johnes disease ?????

 

[backhoeboogie]

What is Johnes disease ?????

Its really bad news. Cows afflicted are skin and bone. The pronounce it "Yawn Knees" most places around here. Don't know if that's right or not.

There has been a lot of discussion on it through the years. You can probably search the threads and get some good examples. You might try googling too.

 

[Caustic Burno]

You can test hay until you are blue in the face and still have poor cows.
If my cows can not maintain body condition, wet or dry and raise the calf without my intervention, I am changing the cow not the grass or hay. It cost less to keep a good cow versus a bad cow. A cow cost a $1.25
a day to upkeep and thats on grass and hay thats 456 dollars a year. That cost raises drastically for a cow that you have on welfare and have to keep proping up.

 

[dun]

What is Johnes disease ?????

Proably more then you wanted to know!

http://extension.missouri.edu/publicati ... px?P=G2115
http://johnesdisease.org/index.html

 

[novatech]

You can test hay until you are blue in the face and still have poor cows.
If my cows can not maintain body condition, wet or dry and raise the calf without my intervention, I am changing the cow not the grass or hay. It cost less to keep a good cow versus a bad cow. A cow cost a $1.25
a day to upkeep and thats on grass and hay thats 456 dollars a year. That cost raises drastically for a cow that you have on welfare and have to keep proping up.

You ain't ever going to make a profit by including all the costs. :lol2:
Especially when calves are only bringing $.75, or what ever they bring now. (I haven't been keeping up.)
Folks around here had to throw away their pencils to stay in business.

 

[BC]

You can test hay until you are blue in the face and still have poor cows.
If my cows can not maintain body condition, wet or dry and raise the calf without my intervention, I am changing the cow not the grass or hay. It cost less to keep a good cow versus a bad cow. A cow cost a $1.25
a day to upkeep and thats on grass and hay thats 456 dollars a year. That cost raises drastically for a cow that you have on welfare and have to keep proping up.

Caustic, even your low maintence cows could not make a living on some of the low quality hay I have seen people feed without some supplementation. You have learned over the years to utilize the resources that you have. In that learning process, you learned to produce hay based on quality not quantity.

 

[Caustic Burno]

You can test hay until you are blue in the face and still have poor cows.
If my cows can not maintain body condition, wet or dry and raise the calf without my intervention, I am changing the cow not the grass or hay. It cost less to keep a good cow versus a bad cow. A cow cost a $1.25
a day to upkeep and thats on grass and hay thats 456 dollars a year. That cost raises drastically for a cow that you have on welfare and have to keep proping up.

Caustic, even your low maintence cows could not make a living on some of the low quality hay I have seen people feed without some supplementation. You have learned over the years to utilize the resources that you have. In that learning process, you learned to produce hay based on quality not quantity.

In some ways you are right and some wrong. I have Bahia which is poor grass to start with.
I can fertilize but I can't control the weather which has as much to do with quality as well.
When that bale comes off the bailer my cows are stuck with it 6% protien or 12%. I can't afford to supplement a cow to my grass with today's economics. Fertilizer has fluctuated from 300 to 800 a ton over the last few years as well as diesel. That is why I operate on one rule ruthless culling of the herd if a cow is not an easy keeper and doesn't produce a calf every 12 months on my grass and hay she is fired no exceptions. Today's cost to upkeep for one year is 456 dollars a cow that goes one month over 12 months is another 37.50 off the bottom line.
I can't afford to have welfare cattle with today's inputs and sale price margins are tighter than every.
The only control we have is input cost, in years when fertilizer was 800 a ton my hay fields fertilizer was cut in half. The day I have to write a check out of my checking account to prop up cows, cows are leaving and I am planting pine trees.
Our business buy's retail and sales wholesale we have two handles to pull cattle that maximize weight on forage and control input cost.