Fecal count?

[kenny thomas]

How many people have done fecal counts before deworming?

Yesterday vet students from the local college came to my farm to do semen tests, preg check cows, and castrate a few calves. Thats another story.
Anyway while there i ask the teacher, who is also my vet, if she would do a fecal count on a few. I had a bull and a steer that had been on hay and feed since early December, and told her to just randomly check a couple cows as they preg checked them.
I was suprised at the results.
The 15 month old bull and the steer had 0 eggs, 1 cow was 0, the other cow was 1 egg.
We have discussed worming cows before and also breaking the worm cycle with rotational grazing. Maybe it works better than i thought.
I for sure would have normally wormed the young bull and steer. Saved several dollars for sure.

 

[Lucky]

We have a friend that used to do fecal counts. After several years he just started worming everything again. He said it was just too much trouble keeping up with which cows needed dewormed. Name brand dewormer has gotten very expensive but the off brands are still fairly inexpensive. Would be an interesting expirement to try though.

 

[kenny thomas]

So in your opinion some cows or calves can have worms and some not? They all pick them up from grazing.
I agree it might effect some cows more than others but worming the whole herd costs money. I use Cydectin and haven't seen a generic. I only worm animals i buy or calves when i wean.
I just checked, there is a generic Cydectin called Tauramox. Same product it seems.

 

[Lucky]

I think some cattle are more prone to having worms. We worm twice a year and notice a definite difference in some cattle. I've probably tried every wormer out there and noticed the biggest change when using the original Ivomec injectable. The cattle slicked off and just looked better. We used Norbrook allot. It seems to work and is a cheaper alternative. I like the pour on because we seem to have less flies for 30-=5 days but I still have an issue with it's effectiveness on parasites. Probably just me being dumb though.

 

[kenny thomas]

I think some cattle are more prone to having worms. We worm twice a year and notice a definite difference in some cattle. I've probably tried every wormer out there and noticed the biggest change when using the original Ivomec injectable. The cattle slicked off and just looked better. We used Norbrook allot. It seems to work and is a cheaper alternative. I like the pour on because we seem to have less flies for 30-=5 days but I still have an issue with it's effectiveness on parasites. Probably just me being dumb though.

We have been told by a vet here on CT that the effect of a pour on is what one licks off of the other.
Use Ultra Sabre for the external parasites, flies, and injectable whatever for worms.

 

[kenny thomas]

I agree some cattle are more prone to the worms effecting them. Not sure if they actually have more worms though. Another good experiment but im sure some of the vets here can answer that part.
I 100% agree in worming calves when i bring them in but if i have no worm load in my cows, why spend to worm them.
If all cows are grazing in the same pasture they are picking up the same amount of worms. Break the cycle with rotational grazing.

 

[Brute 23]

I'm not big on over worming but there are some other benefits. There has been a fungus going around that puts these chunks on the cow or calf's skin. No direct treatment but injecting ivomec has shown to help prevent and reduce it.

We are about start working cows and I'm going to inject every thing with the original ivomec. I'm usually a cydectin fan, also. Using all disposable surenges. No repeater guns because a lot of this stuff can be transmitted from one animal to the next.

 

[gcreekrch]

A vet told me years ago regardless of treatment some cows will always carry worms.

 

[kenny thomas]

A vet told me years ago regardless of treatment some cows will always carry worms.

I agree on the carry, but will it effect them. It seems mature cows have some immunity.
Another question i have is if the cow carries and excrete worm eggs the calves can pick them up and effect the calves even if the cow looks fine. So where does it end other than treating everything or breaking the worm cycle by rotational grazing.

 

[Lucky]

We rotate every two to three weeks during the grazing season. I've always heard it helps prevent worms but I honestly don't understand how. I guess the eggs can't live without a host. I've noticed no difference in cattle condition when rotating. The grass looks better but the cattle look the same.

We worm calves also.

 

[kenny thomas]

Yes, the worms have a short life period without a host. If cattle aren't on that paddock for 6 weeks it breaks the worm cycle.
I totally agree about the grass looking better but the cows the same. At times i think calves from non rotation might outgrow the rotated ones if weather conditions are good because they only graze the best where in rotation they eat it all because its young and tender.
The big difference is the amount of cows i can keep per acre. Even in the beginning i probably added 20% by only cross fencing. I can probably keep 50% more after a few years.

 

[Lucky_P]

Most adult cows have developed resistance/resilience to 'worm' infections (excluding liver flukes)... most will have few to no worms or worm eggs, if you do a fecal exam.
The old adage is that 10% of the animals in a herd/flock will have 80+% of the worms. Fecal egg counts help pick those animals out, and if you do them regularly, you can identify individual animals or family lines that are 'problem' cases... and cull them!
It's been decades since I dewormed an adult cow other than a 2 or 3 yr old nursing a calf, that was looking thin. If they continued down that path, or if they didn't do a good job raising a calf, they took a ride to town.

 

[dave_shelby]

I have read that worms can work with fescue toxin, so cows with more worms also show signs like rough hair coat, panting in summer. I've culled based on fescue tolerance, that seems to be the most important factor that also impacts fertility and calf growth. If I had time I'd like test and cull. I don't want any cow over 30 months that needs wormers.

Appreciate feedback on wormer brand effectivity.

 

[kenny thomas]

Most adult cows have developed resistance/resilience to 'worm' infections (excluding liver flukes)... most will have few to no worms or worm eggs, if you do a fecal exam.
The old adage is that 10% of the animals in a herd/flock will have 80+% of the worms. Fecal egg counts help pick those animals out, and if you do them regularly, you can identify individual animals or family lines that are 'problem' cases... and cull them!
It's been decades since I dewormed an adult cow other than a 2 or 3 yr old nursing a calf, that was looking thin. If they continued down that path, or if they didn't do a good job raising a calf, they took a ride to town.

Good explanation. I thought they somehow carried the worms but they didn't effect them. I haven't dewormed a cow in several years unless it was a bought cow.
How hard is it to learn to identify a worm load and how expensive is a microscope and slides that are good enough for fecals?

 

[kenny thomas]

I have read that worms can work with fescue toxin, so cows with more worms also show signs like rough hair coat, panting in summer. I've culled based on fescue tolerance, that seems to be the most important factor that also impacts fertility and calf growth. If I had time I'd like test and cull. I don't want any cow over 30 months that needs wormers.

Appreciate feedback on wormer brand effectivity.

My opinion only and i hope Lucky_P will answer. I feel if a cow has a worm load it allows the fescue to be worse on them. Again i have no evidence of that at all.