Fall Calf Weights

[inyati13]

Miley
Calved 8/9/14
Estimated weight 115 pounds
Sire AI In-Force
Died of lacerated uterine artery

Ms Bartlet
Calved 9/1/14
Weighed 105 pounds
Sire AI War Party

Princess
Calved 9/24/14
Weighed 70 pounds
Sire AI Composure

Socks
Calved 10/19/14
Weighed 97 pounds
Sire AI Top Hand

Price
Calved 12/3/14
Weighed 100 pounds
Sire Pasture Breed to Spartacus

 

[torogmc81]

Did you try to AI Price and it didn't take, cleaned up by Spartacus? Just wondering. And did you AI any of them twice?

 

[inyati13]

Did you try to AI Price and it didn't take, cleaned up by Spartacus? Just wondering. And did you AI any of them twice?

I did not try to AI Price. I thought she was bred to my previous bull. When Spartacus came on the scene, I discovered to my dismay that she was open. I did have to AI Ms Bartlet twice. She is a challenge. I just bred her back vis AI this week. I used Grandmaster semen. She has a very difficult cervix to navigate. Thanks for your interest.

 

[plumber_greg]

Synced a bunch to HIgh Voltage this year. Liked what I have seen on his daughters. Just asking, why so many different bulls. Know you have a small herd, but don't you think of consistency? gs

 

[inyati13]

Synced a bunch to HIgh Voltage this year. Liked what I have seen on his daughters. Just asking, why so many different bulls. Know you have a small herd, but don't you think of consistency? gs

I have not been planning my breeding well. I have gotten input into that recently. But there has been another factor, I have built my herd with heifers. As I get them past their first calf and into cowdom, I am going to be more comfortable going with a couple simangus and PB simmentals. Right now, I am experiencing a lot of quarter bloods (1/4 SM and 3/4 AN). They are not bad cattle but because I am breeding a lot of half blood simangus to PB angus bulls to get the best calving ease. I am producing a lot of quarter bloods. Oddly, my use of PB angus bulls are not producing the small first calves I was expecting.

 

[RMCDUFFEE]

What were the Birth Weight EPDs for the Sires? Just cause they are Angus doesn't mean they throw small calves (even though the Angus breeders would have you believe that). An article I read recently stated that first calf heifers should be bred to bulls with birth weight EPD in the top 25% for the breed.

 

[plumber_greg]

I like the quarter bloods. In fact, I synced my commercial fall calvers to a 50/50 bull the other day to add a little less Simi. They were bred by natural service to a BeefMaker son last year. I do not know what they were on the maternal side. Long story. Thought I had a little to much variance in frame size in their calves. They are about 60 days old right now, so I don't have the thought on what they are gonna' wean like. Too much simmi in commercials, to me, causes consistency problem. That is why I like the 50/50 right now, I will change next year,.
My thought on small first calves----a good heifer will have a good calf. Many of my first calf heifers will have a 90 lb calf, no problems. I have heard that a live calf is worth more than a dead calf, but a heifer that will have a live calf weighing 90 lbs is worth more than one that needs a calf the size of fawn.
My opinion that a lot of people disagree with is from the old GlenKirk Farms,(who I worked for as a plumber for years) "To get your weaning weights way up, you gotta' be able to get your birthweights way up. If your hereford heifers can have 130 lb Hereford calf unassisted you're getting close to what we're trying to do." I'm not quite that extreme, most of us couldn't afford to feed those heifers. gs

 

[FlyingLSimmentals]

Ron, In my opinion a lot of the Simmental Bulls now are smaller or more moderate than Angus Bulls. I'm thinking on using a little more Angus now but just thinking about it. A lot of our calves are getting to moderate in frame size for me. I don't love long legged cattle but not a fan of shorties either. The Grandmaster Bull is a really nice bull by the way.

 

[Lazy M]

Ron, In my opinion a lot of the Simmental Bulls now are smaller or more moderate than Angus Bulls. I'm thinking on using a little more Angus now but just thinking about it. A lot of our calves are getting to moderate in frame size for me. I don't love long legged cattle but not a fan of shorties either. The Grandmaster Bull is a really nice bull by the way.

I disagree. Pick up any sale book for Sims and compare the birth weights to an Angus sale book. Sims maybe improving their CE but they will always have heavier calves on average. I'm not implying that that is necessarily negative, I've found that often if a heavier calf is born without difficulty they are generally more vigorous than a smaller calf.
I may have misread what Flying L intended. I'm not sure if she means mature size our birth weight. Either way I believe angus will generally be considerably smaller, though.

 

[FlyingLSimmentals]

LazyM, I wasn't really comparing BW's but frame size's basically height. Simmental's are becoming short and stocky or otherwise called moderate. I've seen many of Angus bulls taller and longer. Yes, Angus will generally be smaller at birth but Angus has the largest supply of sires out there. Lastly, I wouldn't say Simmental are that much larger at BW than Angus. Many folks think Simmental calves are still the 90 - 100+ lb. calves. Here we rarely have 1 over the 90 lb. mark, ours mainly go 60 - 85 pounds. Had our smallest calf ever this year from a Simmental Bull. But we do use calving ease Simmental bulls 9 and higher on CE and 2.0 or lower on BW. Only calves we've had to pull for a good while have been misrepresentations leg turned back or coming backwards or twins. Oh, by the way I'm a he not a she :lol: .

 

[inyati13]

What were the Birth Weight EPDs for the Sires? Just cause they are Angus doesn't mean they throw small calves (even though the Angus breeders would have you believe that). An article I read recently stated that first calf heifers should be bred to bulls with birth weight EPD in the top 25% for the breed.

All Select Sire Semen

In Force - Simangus CE 18.7 BW -3.2
Top Hand - PB Angus CE 19 BW -2.4
War Party - PB Angus CE 6 BW 1.9
Composure - PB Angus CE 21 BW -2.1

MY Herd Bull 5/8 SM 3/8 Angus (Rocking P) CE 12.8 BW 1.2

 

[inyati13]

LazyM, I wasn't really comparing BW's but frame size's basically height. Simmental's are becoming short and stocky or otherwise called moderate. I've seen many of Angus bulls taller and longer. Yes, Angus will generally be smaller at birth but Angus has the largest supply of sires out there. Lastly, I wouldn't say Simmental are that much larger at BW than Angus. Many folks think Simmental calves are still the 90 - 100+ lb. calves. Here we rarely have 1 over the 90 lb. mark, ours mainly go 60 - 85 pounds. Had our smallest calf ever this year from a Simmental Bull. But we do use calving ease Simmental bulls 9 and higher on CE and 2.0 or lower on BW. Only calves we've had to pull for a good while have been misrepresentations leg turned back or coming backwards or twins. Oh, by the way I'm a he not a she :lol: .

Mike, Simangus and simmentals I see are smaller than the Angus. I see some very big angus cows in the Mason County area!!!!! I bought a PB simmental in early fall and I am worried on how small she is. Her paternal Grandsire is Grandmaster. She is only 13 months old and very pretty but she is small. I was discussing her with Kris (Fire Sweep) and I plan to have the vet check her pelvic measurements before I breed her in Late January.

In this area the Simmentals I have looked at are short and probably weigh in the 1200 to 1300 range but when you look at my calf weights and consider the size of a couple of those fall calvers it is amazing how thay deliver those big calves.

Socks above is a simangus and her paternal Grand sire is Built Right. I bet she will not weigh more than 1100 hundred pounds. That first calf was 97 pounds and she had him unassisted. I was going out to the farm at all hours of the night because of anxiety over her having a problem. I went out early one morning before light and there she was in the dark with her 97 pound bull calf, pic below:

 

[Lazy M]

LazyM, I wasn't really comparing BW's but frame size's basically height. Simmental's are becoming short and stocky or otherwise called moderate. I've seen many of Angus bulls taller and longer. Yes, Angus will generally be smaller at birth but Angus has the largest supply of sires out there. Lastly, I wouldn't say Simmental are that much larger at BW than Angus. Many folks think Simmental calves are still the 90 - 100+ lb. calves. Here we rarely have 1 over the 90 lb. mark, ours mainly go 60 - 85 pounds. Had our smallest calf ever this year from a Simmental Bull. But we do use calving ease Simmental bulls 9 and higher on CE and 2.0 or lower on BW. Only calves we've had to pull for a good while have been misrepresentations leg turned back or coming backwards or towns. Oh, by the way I'm a he not a she :lol: .

I think that it's good that Sims are expanding and offering more calving ease low BW sires. I hope that they don't go too far though. I'd been playing with the idea of using Sim bulls as a terminal bull for some extra calf weight. Sorry to refer to you as a female, I got you confused with another member!

 

[FlyingLSimmentals]

Ron, bet you were tickled and relieved when you found Socks with that calf, it's always nice when you can turn around and go back to bed. In years past we've had the vet out hrs. all around the clock and got to see how much of a peoples person he was when he was still fighting sleep. That's a really sharp blaze face calf, with just the right amount of chrome unlike mamma ;-) . Actually the chrome doesn't bother me any, I like it.
LazyM, I don't know the type of cows you have, but I'm sure there is a Simmental bull that will work for you. In my opinion the Simmental and Gelbvieh breeds have came miles in having sires that will fit in any type of system. Don't just use Simmental for a terminal sire because they can make some tremendous daughters as well.