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Eric Garner Case
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<blockquote data-quote="Commercialfarmer" data-source="post: 1199185" data-attributes="member: 14544"><p>There have been some good points made in this thread, and I've learned a few things as I generally do here. </p><p></p><p>As I said, I read some stuff about this case when it happened and haven't had time to look into the specifics of it again lately. I remember having some questions about the case (they may have been unfounded), but I do understand the need for police compliance and the danger it poses not just to the individual being detained but other around them and very much to the police doing their job. </p><p></p><p>I think often, people create their own problems. But I've seen some police officers sure provoke it as well. </p><p></p><p>I think not complying in a constitutionally sound situation is wrong and what comes about from it is the persons own doing. </p><p></p><p>I also think that you can't vote for a government body, or vote directly to create a black market situation for cigarettes and then be upset when authorities execute the law. I find the tax ridiculous myself, so I think that the voters are ultimately responsible for killing the guy. </p><p></p><p></p><p>More recently, I've also questioned how much police put themselves into situation that didn't need to be created in the first place. </p><p></p><p>I was sitting off a empty side street in a small town in Kansas last month. It was on a Monday night at 10:45 p.m. I had my interior lights on, looking at a map figuring out where I wanted to go. A police officer that had passed up and down the main street about 4 times in front of me decided that I was a danger to society. So he pulled around the block and came up behind me. He surprised me a little bit as I was focused on the map at the moment. Said he was concerned that someone might rear end me sitting there like that. Mind you, he was the only one I saw and I was in the grass off the road way- I might have even been trespassing on the businesses property. He asked what I was doing. I would have thought it was pretty evident with my orange game vest, additional attire, gun case and pointer growling at him from the back. But I told him I had been hunting and was looking at the map. After a bit more of him explaining that if I went down to the end of town I had already come from, and parked in the gas station parking lot where someone might actually hit me, backing out, it would be a safer situation for me. He asked if I would give him my ID (not license) so he could document out contact with his dispatcher. </p><p></p><p>It's a bs reason to run my license. He knows, I know it, but I don't know if he knows I know. What I do know is that he worded it carefully. I also know that since he didn't at least state a valid reason to actually stop me, giving him a real reason to demand my license be provided, I could have declined to provide it to him. I would have been well within my rights. What I also know, is had I done that, he would have created a reason on the spot to have contact. Pick one of a hundred- real or fabricated. </p><p></p><p>I did nothing to provoke his contact with me. I could have pulled over on the side of the main road, I didn't. I made a purposeful effort to move out of the flow of any traffic, which was none to begin with except he and I. But because he chose to contact me, for the sake of his curiosity, I could have within my rights inflamed the situation to point of problems- just by invoking my Constitutional rights. </p><p></p><p>That is the problem with police I see today. Many don't respect the right of privacy or the Constitutional rights of individuals to deny unreasonable searches. He didn't need to run my license. But if you stand up for those rights, you may have hell to pay. I had already hunted over 10 miles that day and just wanted the guy to leave me alone. </p><p></p><p>Had he had real concern that I would be rear ended in the grass and said so legitimately, I wouldn't have had a problem. Asking for my ID and taking it back to his car to run is an issue for me. He's not enforcing any laws. </p><p></p><p>So in the end, I guess my question is, had I not been compliant, would I have been in the wrong? And would I have been deserving of any ill fate brought about by not being compliant? </p><p></p><p>Curious on peoples take on this particular situation.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Commercialfarmer, post: 1199185, member: 14544"] There have been some good points made in this thread, and I've learned a few things as I generally do here. As I said, I read some stuff about this case when it happened and haven't had time to look into the specifics of it again lately. I remember having some questions about the case (they may have been unfounded), but I do understand the need for police compliance and the danger it poses not just to the individual being detained but other around them and very much to the police doing their job. I think often, people create their own problems. But I've seen some police officers sure provoke it as well. I think not complying in a constitutionally sound situation is wrong and what comes about from it is the persons own doing. I also think that you can't vote for a government body, or vote directly to create a black market situation for cigarettes and then be upset when authorities execute the law. I find the tax ridiculous myself, so I think that the voters are ultimately responsible for killing the guy. More recently, I've also questioned how much police put themselves into situation that didn't need to be created in the first place. I was sitting off a empty side street in a small town in Kansas last month. It was on a Monday night at 10:45 p.m. I had my interior lights on, looking at a map figuring out where I wanted to go. A police officer that had passed up and down the main street about 4 times in front of me decided that I was a danger to society. So he pulled around the block and came up behind me. He surprised me a little bit as I was focused on the map at the moment. Said he was concerned that someone might rear end me sitting there like that. Mind you, he was the only one I saw and I was in the grass off the road way- I might have even been trespassing on the businesses property. He asked what I was doing. I would have thought it was pretty evident with my orange game vest, additional attire, gun case and pointer growling at him from the back. But I told him I had been hunting and was looking at the map. After a bit more of him explaining that if I went down to the end of town I had already come from, and parked in the gas station parking lot where someone might actually hit me, backing out, it would be a safer situation for me. He asked if I would give him my ID (not license) so he could document out contact with his dispatcher. It's a bs reason to run my license. He knows, I know it, but I don't know if he knows I know. What I do know is that he worded it carefully. I also know that since he didn't at least state a valid reason to actually stop me, giving him a real reason to demand my license be provided, I could have declined to provide it to him. I would have been well within my rights. What I also know, is had I done that, he would have created a reason on the spot to have contact. Pick one of a hundred- real or fabricated. I did nothing to provoke his contact with me. I could have pulled over on the side of the main road, I didn't. I made a purposeful effort to move out of the flow of any traffic, which was none to begin with except he and I. But because he chose to contact me, for the sake of his curiosity, I could have within my rights inflamed the situation to point of problems- just by invoking my Constitutional rights. That is the problem with police I see today. Many don't respect the right of privacy or the Constitutional rights of individuals to deny unreasonable searches. He didn't need to run my license. But if you stand up for those rights, you may have hell to pay. I had already hunted over 10 miles that day and just wanted the guy to leave me alone. Had he had real concern that I would be rear ended in the grass and said so legitimately, I wouldn't have had a problem. Asking for my ID and taking it back to his car to run is an issue for me. He's not enforcing any laws. So in the end, I guess my question is, had I not been compliant, would I have been in the wrong? And would I have been deserving of any ill fate brought about by not being compliant? Curious on peoples take on this particular situation. [/QUOTE]
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