EDP Comparisons and How they fit in an real cattle operation.

[Whfarms]

Opinion Based but I still hope to weight as many opinions as possible to see what the consensus is. At the end of the day I own the outcome

I use EDP often. If nothign else I elimate a bunch of "Top Quality Marketing" to compare and contrast females. I attempt to rank animals to be in different % tiles based on the EPD. An example is I live in SW Wisonconsin so anythign with a PAP score above the 80% tile is good with me but Foot Angle and Claw cannot ever go below top 40%. I like maternal traits and look for good marbling but dont discount for Fat often. I think Calving Ease is supper important but am not a fool and know lbs of beef matter when selling so I appreciate higher WW. I like the Yearling Height EPD but doc for being to good. Id rather be getting smaller mammas than bigger ones so I look to be at the bottom of the % with YH.

And some EPD's I dont pay any attention to at all.

I also apprecaite the eye for good cattle and the value of understanding cost. I would like to use the Energy$ EPD more but me and almost eveyone I know doesnt have the proper equipment to really measure intake so i discard it totaly as I think it is a estimated value on most places and has little science behind it.

My cattle graze stockpile pasture, standing corn, and split a role of grass hay every other day from Dec1 - April1. I figure they are eatign 95%+ of the hay when the ground is frozen and they put on condition nice for a mid april calving. We belive in a smaller framed animal with more animals per acre and most would call use rotational grazers (somewhere between the take 1/2 leave 1/2 and the UHDG.

With all that what EPD's does the audience feel adds the most value to you as you raise/replace/restock/sell cattle. What EPD's do people belive need to be in the 1% range and what EPD's do people target the 50% range.

 

[GoWyo]

We are at 4800' elevation and have customers who run at over 8,000'. One of the first things I look at is PAP EPD and whether there is any data backing it up. They need to be in the top 10% and have data. That limits me pretty hard on what is left. Then WW in top 30% and YW, MH and MW should be more toward the 50th percentile. Wean off heavy and not have a big mature size.

For cows, I don't really worry about CED and BW, but CEM is important and should be 50% or better. I do look at $EN and $Wean. Most of our customers are cow-calf and sell at weaning. Maternal pedigree is highly important. The females need to be replacement quality as much as possible.

 

[NIdahoShorthorns]

They need to be in the top 10% and have data.

 

[NIdahoShorthorns]

What EPD's do people belive need to be in the 1% range and what EPD's do people target the 50% range.

Doesn't this all depend on whether you're trying to change or maintain? Are you trying to reduce birth weights? Go for lower. Are you trying to maintain what you have? Shoot for a percentile that matches. Are you looking for terminal sires(top1% in carcass and growth) or a maternal sire(milking and stayability) to keep replacements? The combinations are limitless.

 

[Whfarms]

Doesn't this all depend on whether you're trying to change or maintain? Are you trying to reduce birth weights? Go for lower. Are you trying to maintain what you have? Shoot for a percentile that matches. Are you looking for terminal sires(top1% in carcass and growth) or a maternal sire(milking and stayability) to keep replacements? The combinations are limitless.

I agree that the combinations are endless. With that said I think GoWyo's answer is a perfect example of a response to the question. Its location and target goal driven, but hereing how other people put weight behind different scenerios if very insightful.

 

[NIdahoShorthorns]

It's hard for me to even wrap my head around some of these EPDs. CED being one, the range listed in an angus assoc search extends from +22 to -15. We're told that this is to be interpreted as difference in assisted births per 100 first calve heifers. That's 37 more assists per 100 heifers in the 22 vs the -15!!! If I had to assist 37 of 100, let alone 37 more, I think I'd disperse and start over, maybe I'm wrong. It just doesn't make rational sense to me.

 

[wbvs58]

Opinion Based but I still hope to weight as many opinions as possible to see what the consensus is. At the end of the day I own the outcome

I use EDP often. If nothign else I elimate a bunch of "Top Quality Marketing" to compare and contrast females. I attempt to rank animals to be in different % tiles based on the EPD. An example is I live in SW Wisonconsin so anythign with a PAP score above the 80% tile is good with me but Foot Angle and Claw cannot ever go below top 40%. I like maternal traits and look for good marbling but dont discount for Fat often. I think Calving Ease is supper important but am not a fool and know lbs of beef matter when selling so I appreciate higher WW. I like the Yearling Height EPD but doc for being to good. Id rather be getting smaller mammas than bigger ones so I look to be at the bottom of the % with YH.

And some EPD's I dont pay any attention to at all.

I also apprecaite the eye for good cattle and the value of understanding cost. I would like to use the Energy$ EPD more but me and almost eveyone I know doesnt have the proper equipment to really measure intake so i discard it totaly as I think it is a estimated value on most places and has little science behind it.

My cattle graze stockpile pasture, standing corn, and split a role of grass hay every other day from Dec1 - April1. I figure they are eatign 95%+ of the hay when the ground is frozen and they put on condition nice for a mid april calving. We belive in a smaller framed animal with more animals per acre and most would call use rotational grazers (somewhere between the take 1/2 leave 1/2 and the UHDG.

With all that what EPD's does the audience feel adds the most value to you as you raise/replace/restock/sell cattle. What EPD's do people belive need to be in the 1% range and what EPD's do people target the 50% range.

Do you find many bulls that meet your criteria? How many bulls do you run? If you run several bulls I think you can be very picky with your selection of a new bull and if he does not work out you can ship him before too much damage done. If you run just one bull I would be looking more at phenotype and actual data like BW and WW and most importantly his female side, pedigree and is he from an older cow with a good history of weaning good calves and breeding back. With just the one bull, you gotta get it right.

Ken

 

[Whfarms]

Do you find many bulls that meet your criteria? How many bulls do you run? If you run several bulls I think you can be very picky with your selection of a new bull and if he does not work out you can ship him before too much damage done. If you run just one bull I would be looking more at phenotype and actual data like BW and WW and most importantly his female side, pedigree and is he from an older cow with a good history of weaning good calves and breeding back. With just the one bull, you gotta get it right.

Ken

We run three bulls, do about 40 embryos and AI all the rest of the cows for both our spring and fall herds.

I personally focus heavily on feet, maternal and WW and leave the emphasis of the feedlot traits but I'm either keeping my own or selling bred heifers.

I'm can't say I am looking for specific advice. More of a question for the group and see what other people do and what works and doesn't work.

 

[wbvs58]

We run three bulls, do about 40 embryos and AI all the rest of the cows for both our spring and fall herds.

I personally focus heavily on feet, maternal and WW and leave the emphasis of the feedlot traits but I'm either keeping my own or selling bred heifers.

I'm can't say I am looking for specific advice. More of a question for the group and see what other people do and what works and doesn't work.

EBV's Are important to me, I run around 40 cows plus heifers and use 3 bulls that I have bred to clean up after AI. The bulls I use don't necessarily have the best EBV's but I know hat their growth has been like and more importantly the cow that they are out of. The bulls I select for AI the numbers I like will mean nothing to you as our EBV's are different but I like reasonable milk, middle of the road BW, and a good 400 day wt, feed efficiency I like to be in the top half. I look at the feet and leg numbers but don't get hung up on them. I don't get to see these bulls but the ones I use I try to do as much research on them as possible I read the rural newspapers and take note of the sires of bulls that top various sales. I think I have done OK on bull selection most bulls I have used I see a lot in the pedigree especially the female side of new bulls in semen catalogues and many siring bulls that top sales after I use them. Doing what I do spreads the risk of a dud bull if I was to just buy in one bull for my small herd.

Ken

 

[Ebenezer]

"Id rather be getting smaller mammas than bigger ones so I look to be at the bottom of the % with YH."
I don't think this is necessary. You can find some that stop growing (height) sooner with good YH but not an extreme MH or MW.

 

[SBMF 2015]

Opinion Based but I still hope to weight as many opinions as possible to see what the consensus is. At the end of the day I own the outcome

I use EDP often. If nothign else I elimate a bunch of "Top Quality Marketing" to compare and contrast females. I attempt to rank animals to be in different % tiles based on the EPD. An example is I live in SW Wisonconsin so anythign with a PAP score above the 80% tile is good with me but Foot Angle and Claw cannot ever go below top 40%. I like maternal traits and look for good marbling but dont discount for Fat often. I think Calving Ease is supper important but am not a fool and know lbs of beef matter when selling so I appreciate higher WW. I like the Yearling Height EPD but doc for being to good. Id rather be getting smaller mammas than bigger ones so I look to be at the bottom of the % with YH.

And some EPD's I dont pay any attention to at all.

I also apprecaite the eye for good cattle and the value of understanding cost. I would like to use the Energy$ EPD more but me and almost eveyone I know doesnt have the proper equipment to really measure intake so i discard it totaly as I think it is a estimated value on most places and has little science behind it.

My cattle graze stockpile pasture, standing corn, and split a role of grass hay every other day from Dec1 - April1. I figure they are eatign 95%+ of the hay when the ground is frozen and they put on condition nice for a mid april calving. We belive in a smaller framed animal with more animals per acre and most would call use rotational grazers (somewhere between the take 1/2 leave 1/2 and the UHDG.

With all that what EPD's does the audience feel adds the most value to you as you raise/replace/restock/sell cattle. What EPD's do people belive need to be in the 1% range and what EPD's do people target the 50% range.

Woodhill cattle should have fit your environment very well.

I use EPD's as a baseline. We're pretty maternal driven so BW, HP, milk, and Doc are all pretty high on my list.

 

[W.B.]

We run three bulls, do about 40 embryos and AI all the rest of the cows for both our spring and fall herds.

I personally focus heavily on feet, maternal and WW and leave the emphasis of the feedlot traits but I'm either keeping my own or selling bred heifers.

I'm can't say I am looking for specific advice. More of a question for the group and see what other people do and what works and doesn't work.

I agree with Gowyo in that top 10% is a good place to be for the traits you want. Population genetics allows you to do that without upsetting the apple cart. Pedigree is still relevant but shouldn't be the end all be all. When I bought Right Time 7861 I wasn't looking for a bull with Chisum as the maternal grand sire but I bought him anyway because I felt the udder on the grand dam could overcome the problem. In the end I likely won the gamble but it doesn't always work out that way. When I saw his feet I was sold.

 

[Angusjohn]

It's hard for me to even wrap my head around some of these EPDs. CED being one, the range listed in an angus assoc search extends from +22 to -15. We're told that this is to be interpreted as difference in assisted births per 100 first calve heifers. That's 37 more assists per 100 heifers in the 22 vs the -15!!! If I had to assist 37 of 100, let alone 37 more, I think I'd disperse and start over, maybe I'm wrong. It just doesn't make rational sense to me.

You have this backwards. From the website:

Calving Ease Direct (CED), is expressed as a difference in percentage of unassisted births, with a higher value indicating greater calving ease in first-calf heifers. It predicts the average difference in ease with which a sire's calves will be born when he is bred to first-calf heifers.

 

[NIdahoShorthorns]

You have this backwards. From the website:

Calving Ease Direct (CED), is expressed as a difference in percentage of unassisted births, with a higher value indicating greater calving ease in first-calf heifers. It predicts the average difference in ease with which a sire's calves will be born when he is bred to first-calf heifers.

You're right I did have that inverted. But it still doesn't change the interpretation. There's an upper bound on unassisted births and that is 100%. If the range in the population is 37, are they saying the bottom end can expect at least 63% assisted births? I suppose the interpretation is, do not use on a heifer.

 

[Angusjohn]

Honestly, I really don't understand why the EPD would be set up so a higher number would indicate fewer calving issues. Confusing to say the least. I only use an EPD of +10 on heifers. The extension service says +7 is the minimum for use on heifers.

 

[PPRM]

It's hard for me to even wrap my head around some of these EPDs. CED being one, the range listed in an angus assoc search extends from +22 to -15. We're told that this is to be interpreted as difference in assisted births per 100 first calve heifers. That's 37 more assists per 100 heifers in the 22 vs the -15!!! If I had to assist 37 of 100, let alone 37 more, I think I'd disperse and start over, maybe I'm wrong. It just doesn't make rational sense to me.

The bull is only half of a calving issue. We use a cow vet (one that palpates a lot of cows). When he does a repro exam on Heifers we simply have him let us know of any with a snug pelvic opening.

We haven't pulled a calf in at least 6 years on around 120 pairs average

 

[Travlr]

The bull is only half of a calving issue. We use a cow vet (one that palpates a lot of cows). When he does a repro exam on Heifers we simply have him let us know of any with a snug pelvic opening.

We haven't pulled a calf in at least 6 years on around 120 pairs average

I have found that people that raise capable cows rarely pull calves...