Dystocia with Thin vs. Fat Cows Q's.

[IluvABbeef]

Why do thin cows or heifers have more incidences of dystocia than fat or good framed cows/heifers, even though thin cows/heifers give smaller calves? I'm trying to find the answer to this question by taking out the 30% heritability of the equation of calving ease and instead leaving the environmental conditions (climate) and nutritional aspects in. And, are dystocia problems in thinner cows due to reduced muscle mass in the cow, or less energy reserves she has stored which tires her more quickly leading to dystocia, or both, or something else that I didn't mention?

 

[dun]

Why do thin cows or heifers have more incidences of dystocia than fat or good framed cows/heifers, even though thin cows/heifers give smaller calves? I'm trying to find the answer to this question by taking out the 30% heritability of the equation of calving ease and instead leaving the environmental conditions (climate) and nutritional aspects in. And, are dystocia problems in thinner cows due to reduced muscle mass in the cow, or less energy reserves she has stored which tires her more quickly leading to dystocia, or both, or something else that I didn't mention?

I think all of the above but the latter (in my mind) has more affect. Could possibly be less hormones too. Plus the calf typically wouldn;t be as vigorous/strong.

 

[ffamom]

I haven't heard that they have more dystocia. However, calves are smaller and mothers have poorer quality milk. Therefore, more calves die from thin dams due to illness.

If you are talking about heifers, they haven't grown to their potential. Thus they have smaller pelvic size. Smaller pelvic area=more dystocia.

 

[dun]

I haven't heard that they have more dystocia. However, calves are smaller and mothers have poorer quality milk. Therefore, more calves die from thin dams due to illness.

If you are talking about heifers, they haven't grown to their potential. Thus they have smaller pelvic size. Smaller pelvic area=more dystocia.

There are studys all over about the varying levels of nutrition and dystocia. Do a google search and you'll find a bunch of information about it

 

[angus9259]

There are studys all over about the varying levels of nutrition and dystocia. Do a google search and you'll find a bunch of information about it

. . . and debunking the myth that underfeeding cows - especially in late gestation - minimizes dystocia. most of material suggests that underfeeding cows will minimize birthweight, but will still increase dystocia and weak calf syndrome. that said, I don't think the material compares thin cows to healthy cows not to fat cows.

 

[dun]

There are studys all over about the varying levels of nutrition and dystocia. Do a google search and you'll find a bunch of information about it

. . . and debunking the myth that underfeeding cows - especially in late gestation - minimizes dystocia. most of material suggests that underfeeding cows will minimize birthweight, but will still increase dystocia and weak calf syndrome. that said, I don't think the material compares thin cows to healthy cows not to fat cows.

Which leads us to the old saw "you can;t starve a profit out of a cow"

 

[TSR]

There are studys all over about the varying levels of nutrition and dystocia. Do a google search and you'll find a bunch of information about it

. . . and debunking the myth that underfeeding cows - especially in late gestation - minimizes dystocia. most of material suggests that underfeeding cows will minimize birthweight, but will still increase dystocia and weak calf syndrome. that said, I don't think the material compares thin cows to healthy cows not to fat cows.

Which leads us to the old saw "you can;t starve a profit out of a cow"

Never, Never limit the feed in the last stages of pregnancy to try to have less calving problems, especially with heifers. Don't over do it (feeding them like your going to put them in the freezer) just keep things "normal". If you have any problems,chances are you would have had them anyway.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

OK - I googled - here's a pretty good article:
http://www.cattlenetwork.com/Cow-Calf-- ... oid=627173

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

OK - I googled - here's a pretty good article:
http://www.cattlenetwork.com/Cow-Calf-- ... oid=627173

Here's another - page 6
http://www.vet.ksu.edu/depts/VMTH/agpra ... MA%20224(1)%2042-48%202004%20PDF7.pdf

 

[IluvABbeef]

What about if the feed is poorer quality like it is here? I know that cows will have smaller calves and lighter weaned calves because of the poorer nutrition the calves are getting pre-parturition (though someone told me that thinner cows have bigger calves becuase it's like the cows are putting all their efforts into growing the calf and not themselves), but I find it kind of ironic that though the thin cows will have smaller calves, they have a higher rate of difficult calving.

 

[hillsdown]

Karin if you are feeding poorer quality feed you need to up the mineral package.. It sickens me when people just throw out a salt block with trace minerals and the beotch about the cattle having calving problems. Minerals are a good tool to use to help absolve dystocia problems.

 

[IluvABbeef]

OK - I googled - here's a pretty good article:
http://www.cattlenetwork.com/Cow-Calf-- ... oid=627173

Here's another - page 6
http://www.vet.ksu.edu/depts/VMTH/agpra ... MA%20224(1)%2042-48%202004%20PDF7.pdf

Jeanne, thanks but the last link wouldn't work when I clicked on it. I could copy and paste the links as I was typing out my reply though, so I will repost them for easier access for other folks:

Management Strategies to Decrease Calf Death Losses in Beef Herds

Cow-Calf: Nutrition, Birth weights

The top link on pg. 6 answered my suspicions. As I said in my last reply, I got very skeptical when they said that calves are bigger in thinner cows and thought "no, no, no that CAN'T be right." But the lower body mass and energy reserves to calve out.... :nod: :nod:

Thanks Jeanne.

 

[IluvABbeef]

HD, I agree, and most folks around here are going to be upping the grain or alfalfa cube supplementation to compensate for the lack of quality in the hay. With the drought last year and hay shortages, you'd expect the hay quality to deteriorate. But even hay quality deteriorates when the crop gets too much moisture. It's a double edged sword, unfortunately.

 

[hillsdown]

HD, I agree, and most folks around here are going to be upping the grain or alfalfa cube supplementation to compensate for the lack of quality in the hay. With the drought last year and hay shortages, you'd expect the hay quality to deteriorate. But even hay quality deteriorates when the crop gets too much moisture. It's a double edged sword, unfortunately.

The main problem is people do not spend a couple of bucks to get their fed tested so they know just where they are at. Lot's of rainfall take the nutrients out of the soil so even though you get more tonnage the quality is not there, we always try to cut early when we have a good rainfall year to ensure that the quality is there. Quality is better than quantity and there are a few producers and hay "sellers" still do not know that.