Has anyone had any luck with Durana clover being able to compete with bermuda grass? I want the durability of the bermuda grass but would like to kick up the protein of the pasture and hay.
Durana Clover and Bermuda Grass
- Thread starter Chuckie
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jerry27150
Well-known member
don't know about durana, but ladino clover is aggressive enough to grow with fescue. i am not familiar with bermuda as their is none up here
OP
OP
Jerry, I don't seem to get any reaction to this subject. I am reading in the "Beef" magazine, in the Annual Forage edition, where a man sews Arrowleaf and Durana clover with bermuda grass. When I look it up, it says that it grows in the bermuda in the cool of the spring and summer and in the fall, and does stand well with the bermuda. It also states that the Durana and Patriot clover are most suited with bermuda in the Southeast. The Arrowleaf clover is subject to disease where the Durana is more hardy like the Landino. The Patriot clover is a cross between the Durana and Ladino clover. The Durana is a smaller leaf than the Ladino, but produces more runners and leaves. Planting the Durana would seem to be the best choice. The article stated that Durana was holding up well in grazed bermuda for over two years without reseeding. If cut for hay, it would give two or three cuttings which would up the protein for the cows carrying calves. I was hoping that someone else had grown these two together.
jerry27150
Well-known member
like i say i am not familiar with either, but from what you have said it sounds like durana would be a good choice. i would think since bermuda likes warm weather the clover would get a good start on it in the spring. they keep coming out with new & better types. did you look up on the net for growing bermuda & clover in your area, i would think some university would have studied it. good luck
MrBilly
Well-known member
Hi
I have Durana in all of my fescue pastures, some of which also contain Bermuda grass. First Durana is a short clover under grazing, that is why it is so persistant. It does get taller if left un grazed. It is extremely aggressive. I have the feeling after watching it for several years now that it is so aggressive that it has taken over some of my toxic fescue. Now you see just large mats of clover with little other grass in it. when I drilled in the Durana I was unable to get real close to some electric pasture polytape, the fescue was tall and doing well there, but on both sides it was just Durana weed, as we call it.
I guess I would be careful in Bermuda, but then maybe the aggressiveness is what you want?
I would look at the Georgia Forages website, you might contact Dr. Andre about using it in Bermuda.
http://commodities.caes.uga.edu/fieldcrops/forages/
I have Durana in all of my fescue pastures, some of which also contain Bermuda grass. First Durana is a short clover under grazing, that is why it is so persistant. It does get taller if left un grazed. It is extremely aggressive. I have the feeling after watching it for several years now that it is so aggressive that it has taken over some of my toxic fescue. Now you see just large mats of clover with little other grass in it. when I drilled in the Durana I was unable to get real close to some electric pasture polytape, the fescue was tall and doing well there, but on both sides it was just Durana weed, as we call it.
I guess I would be careful in Bermuda, but then maybe the aggressiveness is what you want?
I would look at the Georgia Forages website, you might contact Dr. Andre about using it in Bermuda.
http://commodities.caes.uga.edu/fieldcrops/forages/
OP
OP
Thanks Mr. Billy! That is what I wanted to hear. I am reading where clover added to the grass will make your cattle gain 300% more than what grass alone will do. I guess if your cattle gain one pound a day, then with the clover, it will add three pounds. Do you find your cattle doing well on this clover? It doesn't seem to be popular around here. I have asked the Ag man at work and he has never heard of it before. But I am glad to hear what you report and will go to the site you added to your post.
MrBilly
Well-known member
Mr. Chuckie,
Yes we are pleased with it as a means to dilute our toxic fescue and at the same time to add nitrogen back into the soil. I do understand that the aggressiveness may pass after the first few years and the grass it seems to have crowded out will come back. I think we may now be seeing some of this. What it will do to a Bermuda field, particularly if it is used for hay, I do not know?
The cattle do seem to do well on it, I wiegh frequently, but I am not sure we have evaluated or compared pre and post Durana rates of gain?
I do think if you will have only a few pastures in the Durana, you will need to watch for bloat. We have not had this as a problem since all of our pastures are planted in it. At certain times of the year, spring, the stuff goes crazay with some moisture and it can get 10 inches tall, and I get sweaty palms about the possibility of bloat. I think once cattle are on it, and if they continue to get exposed to it, they adapt and bloat is not a problem, at least in our experience.
Good Luck.
Billy
Yes we are pleased with it as a means to dilute our toxic fescue and at the same time to add nitrogen back into the soil. I do understand that the aggressiveness may pass after the first few years and the grass it seems to have crowded out will come back. I think we may now be seeing some of this. What it will do to a Bermuda field, particularly if it is used for hay, I do not know?
The cattle do seem to do well on it, I wiegh frequently, but I am not sure we have evaluated or compared pre and post Durana rates of gain?
I do think if you will have only a few pastures in the Durana, you will need to watch for bloat. We have not had this as a problem since all of our pastures are planted in it. At certain times of the year, spring, the stuff goes crazay with some moisture and it can get 10 inches tall, and I get sweaty palms about the possibility of bloat. I think once cattle are on it, and if they continue to get exposed to it, they adapt and bloat is not a problem, at least in our experience.
Good Luck.
Billy
MrBilly":308vvsm0 said:
Our pastures also have a very high clover component. I've found that since the cows are used to the stuff, they don;t make a point of grazing the clvoer. They'll just graze through a large patch (20 foot sqaure) and jsut keep grazing along just like the do in the grass areas.
dun
G.Marc Renwick
Active member
I am very interested in this "Durana" clover.Sounds good.We have very persistant stands of Ladino in our pastures which may be hayed once a year if at all,but in our predominantly bermuda hayfieds the clover has no persistancy.Apparently 3-4 cuttings of hay robs it's energy reserves and it dies out.Clovers do well on heavy soil provided enough moisture is present.I used to think it needed shade ,like orchrdgrass in our area.But on hilltops and exposed areas it just goes summer dormant earlier.I couldn't find any info on the UGa web-link provided earlier but will watch for future posts.
OP
OP
G. Marc Renwick, All that I am reading is good. Here is an article from University of Georgia.
http://pubs.caes.uga.edu/caespubs/pubcd/B1251.htm
Scroll down to the heading of: Factors to Consider When Choosing a White Clover Variety
Here is a paragraph from
http://www.afgc.org/Hoveland2003.htm
New persistent white clover offers potential in stressful environments: In stressful environments with high summer temperatures, drought, and soils with low water-holding capacity, available ladino clover cultivars have been short lived, usually surviving only one to two years in grass pastures (Fribourg et al., 1991; Hoveland, 1989). Ladino clover is the most commonly used pasture legume in the southeastern USA, but it requires replanting every year or two. As a result, many producers utilize a grass-N pasture system. Bouton et al., (1998) demonstrated the value of using naturalized white clover ecotypes to develop persistent pasture cultivars. This procedure resulted in the new small-leaf white clover cultivar Durana, a drought-tolerant plant that survives well in pastures (Bouton, 2003). In a 3-year central Georgia grazing trial, Durana and Regal ladino were compared in endophyte-free and infected tall fescue sods (Table 7). Results were similar the first two years but by the third year seasonal forage clover percentages averaged 40% for Durana but had declined to only 3% for Regal ladino. The ADG's on Durana vs no clover were 1.79 and 0.60 on endophyte-infected tall fescue and 2.47 and 1.40 on endophyte-free tall fescue. The ADG and gain/acre on Durana was about double that of Regal ladino on endophyte-free and triple on endophyte-infected tall fescue. Other small plot grazing trials in tall fescue and bermudagrass at two locations have demonstrated good stand persistence during four drought years. Durana offers livestock producers the prospect of a persistent white clover for stressful pasture situations that can greatly enhance animal production at low cost.
http://pubs.caes.uga.edu/caespubs/pubcd/B1251.htm
Scroll down to the heading of: Factors to Consider When Choosing a White Clover Variety
Here is a paragraph from
http://www.afgc.org/Hoveland2003.htm
New persistent white clover offers potential in stressful environments: In stressful environments with high summer temperatures, drought, and soils with low water-holding capacity, available ladino clover cultivars have been short lived, usually surviving only one to two years in grass pastures (Fribourg et al., 1991; Hoveland, 1989). Ladino clover is the most commonly used pasture legume in the southeastern USA, but it requires replanting every year or two. As a result, many producers utilize a grass-N pasture system. Bouton et al., (1998) demonstrated the value of using naturalized white clover ecotypes to develop persistent pasture cultivars. This procedure resulted in the new small-leaf white clover cultivar Durana, a drought-tolerant plant that survives well in pastures (Bouton, 2003). In a 3-year central Georgia grazing trial, Durana and Regal ladino were compared in endophyte-free and infected tall fescue sods (Table 7). Results were similar the first two years but by the third year seasonal forage clover percentages averaged 40% for Durana but had declined to only 3% for Regal ladino. The ADG's on Durana vs no clover were 1.79 and 0.60 on endophyte-infected tall fescue and 2.47 and 1.40 on endophyte-free tall fescue. The ADG and gain/acre on Durana was about double that of Regal ladino on endophyte-free and triple on endophyte-infected tall fescue. Other small plot grazing trials in tall fescue and bermudagrass at two locations have demonstrated good stand persistence during four drought years. Durana offers livestock producers the prospect of a persistent white clover for stressful pasture situations that can greatly enhance animal production at low cost.
G.Marc Renwick
Active member
Thanks for the info Chuckie.We will lose some ladino as we put out Grazon to control multiflora rose but you can bet I will replant Durana on the fields where we lose our ladino.What is per # price and what rates do you sow?
OP
OP
From what I am finding, it is running around $4.50 a pound for coated seed. They are saying for a pure stand, plant 5lb. If you want a 30% clover/70% grass pasture, plant 3lbs of coated seed. I checked with my local Co-op and they told me they had only ordered it twice in the last year but couldn't remember who purchased it. I would like to have called them to ask questions. Co-op told me in the $5 range a pound. Not to run it in the ground, I found this article from Progressive Farmer:http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3832/is_200310/ai_n9315302
It just might be the four-leaf clover for hunters, wildlife enthusiasts and farmers in search of a durable perennial wildlife food plot. It's called Durana. And while this new white clover doesn't really feature four leaves, researchers at the University of Georgia say it's the best performing, most persistent white clover they've ever seen.
"We put Durana through a series of extreme, three-year field tests in working grass pastures where cattle continually grazed and trod during some of the worst droughts and most stressful conditions on record," explains Dr. Carl Hoveland, a senior researcher and internationally known forage expert with the University of Georgia's crop and soil sciences department.
The University of Georgia and AgResearch of New Zealand jointly developed Durana through years of research and tolerance studies. The latter stages of testing were funded by Pennington Seed.
"Grazing persistence in a grass sod is a far better predictor of clover performance than yield clipping trials," says Hoveland. "Durana has consistently outshined and outlasted the common ladino white clovers on the market in real-world conditions."
Hoveland will never forget when he and his research colleagues planted the first test pastures of Durana near the central Georgia town of Eatonton six years ago. Stands from the inaugural fields began to develop, but the new year of 1998 brought a "desperately dry late winter, spring and summer."
Hoveland recalls, "We walked the test pastures late that summer thinking, 'There's nothing left.' We got good rains that September, and the Durana exploded with growth. The runners of the plants and roots were still there, and we actually were able to graze the pastures that fall. That was impressive. That's when we first knew we had something special in Durana."
Cattle are continually grazing the same test pastures of Durana for the fifth straight season, where Regal ladino clover stands failed after two years in the same trial. The pasture test results (documented under the relentless Southern sun with fierce competition from weeds, bermuda and fescues) bode extremely well for the establishment and long-term management of food plots.
SLOW AND STEADY. Hoveland compares Durana's consistent ability to outlast all other white clovers to the storied race between the tortoise and the hare.
"Regal ladino clover jumps out to a great start and will certainly outyield Durana during the establishment year every time," explains Hoveland. "But there's not another white clover on the planet today that comes close to the persistence of Durana. Typically, when it enters its third season of grazing healthy and hearty, chances are the Regal stands have been left in the dust."
Farmer and hunter Joe Halford has high expectations of Durana after planting a demonstration plot about a year ago on his land in Bolton, Miss. "With its persistence, reliability and nutritional quality, I think Durana just might be the perennial white clover I need in both my pastures and food plots," he predicts.
Durana's protein levels-up to 28%-and its unprecedented persistence are big advantages over the common types of ladino white clover on the market. In fact, several demonstration food plots have reportedly attracted as many as 60 deer without any measurable grazing pressures.
With that in mind and with the hunting season fast approaching, Pennington Seed is delivering initial, limited supplies of its new, nutritional Durana seed and seed mixtures to seed-and-feed stores around the South this fall.
THE PAYOFF. At $4.50 per pound, Durana costs more than the average white clover seed. But six-plus years of research show that Durana is no average white clover.
"It will last at least three times longer under continual, abusive grazing and stressful heat conditions," explains Hoveland. "In fact, our Durana test pastures are still going strong. So we don't know if it will ever die out. Unless farmers and hunters enjoy replanting their pastures and food plots every two years, Durana is a real bargain with some of our test fields now in their sixth year."
Studies show the pre-inoculated Durana seed, offered exclusively by Pennington in North America, grows in a lower pH soil; tolerates heavier browse pressure; delivers more persistence, stolon density and low leaf growth; competes aggressively with grasses and weeds; and produces more nitrogen, which makes the breakthrough white clover more grazing and drought tolerant.
-John Drew
It just might be the four-leaf clover for hunters, wildlife enthusiasts and farmers in search of a durable perennial wildlife food plot. It's called Durana. And while this new white clover doesn't really feature four leaves, researchers at the University of Georgia say it's the best performing, most persistent white clover they've ever seen.
"We put Durana through a series of extreme, three-year field tests in working grass pastures where cattle continually grazed and trod during some of the worst droughts and most stressful conditions on record," explains Dr. Carl Hoveland, a senior researcher and internationally known forage expert with the University of Georgia's crop and soil sciences department.
The University of Georgia and AgResearch of New Zealand jointly developed Durana through years of research and tolerance studies. The latter stages of testing were funded by Pennington Seed.
"Grazing persistence in a grass sod is a far better predictor of clover performance than yield clipping trials," says Hoveland. "Durana has consistently outshined and outlasted the common ladino white clovers on the market in real-world conditions."
Hoveland will never forget when he and his research colleagues planted the first test pastures of Durana near the central Georgia town of Eatonton six years ago. Stands from the inaugural fields began to develop, but the new year of 1998 brought a "desperately dry late winter, spring and summer."
Hoveland recalls, "We walked the test pastures late that summer thinking, 'There's nothing left.' We got good rains that September, and the Durana exploded with growth. The runners of the plants and roots were still there, and we actually were able to graze the pastures that fall. That was impressive. That's when we first knew we had something special in Durana."
Cattle are continually grazing the same test pastures of Durana for the fifth straight season, where Regal ladino clover stands failed after two years in the same trial. The pasture test results (documented under the relentless Southern sun with fierce competition from weeds, bermuda and fescues) bode extremely well for the establishment and long-term management of food plots.
SLOW AND STEADY. Hoveland compares Durana's consistent ability to outlast all other white clovers to the storied race between the tortoise and the hare.
"Regal ladino clover jumps out to a great start and will certainly outyield Durana during the establishment year every time," explains Hoveland. "But there's not another white clover on the planet today that comes close to the persistence of Durana. Typically, when it enters its third season of grazing healthy and hearty, chances are the Regal stands have been left in the dust."
Farmer and hunter Joe Halford has high expectations of Durana after planting a demonstration plot about a year ago on his land in Bolton, Miss. "With its persistence, reliability and nutritional quality, I think Durana just might be the perennial white clover I need in both my pastures and food plots," he predicts.
Durana's protein levels-up to 28%-and its unprecedented persistence are big advantages over the common types of ladino white clover on the market. In fact, several demonstration food plots have reportedly attracted as many as 60 deer without any measurable grazing pressures.
With that in mind and with the hunting season fast approaching, Pennington Seed is delivering initial, limited supplies of its new, nutritional Durana seed and seed mixtures to seed-and-feed stores around the South this fall.
THE PAYOFF. At $4.50 per pound, Durana costs more than the average white clover seed. But six-plus years of research show that Durana is no average white clover.
"It will last at least three times longer under continual, abusive grazing and stressful heat conditions," explains Hoveland. "In fact, our Durana test pastures are still going strong. So we don't know if it will ever die out. Unless farmers and hunters enjoy replanting their pastures and food plots every two years, Durana is a real bargain with some of our test fields now in their sixth year."
Studies show the pre-inoculated Durana seed, offered exclusively by Pennington in North America, grows in a lower pH soil; tolerates heavier browse pressure; delivers more persistence, stolon density and low leaf growth; competes aggressively with grasses and weeds; and produces more nitrogen, which makes the breakthrough white clover more grazing and drought tolerant.
-John Drew
Other then the (claimed) persistence for white clovers and the slaphermine(sp) affect of red clover, just exactly what is the advantage of white over red. All of the ladino and alsike has given way to the native "wild" white clover and the red clover has persisted through reseeding. The red also seems to keep growing during the summer better then the whites that we had planted.
Just curious, we've been pleased with the red and disappointed in the whites. Biomass maybe? Maybe I'm missing something.
dun
Just curious, we've been pleased with the red and disappointed in the whites. Biomass maybe? Maybe I'm missing something.
dun
OP
OP
Dun, the reason I have been looking at the Durana so close is that the protein level of white clover is much higher than the red clover. From the pasture book of grass and legumes, it shows red clover to have the same protein level of orchard grass. It shows red clover to have 18.3 Protein and Digestable Protein of 13.1. Aslike Protein 18.1 and Dig. Protein is 12.9. Crimson clover is less than the above. Orchard grass at the fresh growing stage to be 18.4 Protein and Digestable P. to be 13.1. Of course it can go as low as 8.4 Pr. and DP to 3.7 if you have it under grazed and it gets tall in the milk stage.
The white clovers show 24.7 Protein and 18.5 Dig. Protein.
Several years ago, I planted Orchard grass, red clover, and lespedeza. The man that sold the seed, tell me that the red clover would eventually turn into white clover. I didn't think much about it at the time. I had a beautiful stand of the grass and clover, and where there was a thin spot, the lespedeza stood strong. Also, on tops of hills, when the weather would warm up, the lespedza would show up there. After a few years, the red clover started thinning out and white clover showing up. I guess the red clover I planted might have been crossed with white clover cross somewhere along the way to produce the strain. He also told me that red clover was much like alfalfa in growing in the same plot, to lose it's stand after a while. I didn't try to reseed the red clover since the pasture was so good and everything was so fat.
I will still plant orchard grass, a good fescue, red clover, durana, and lespedeza in the new pasture, but will probably use it for hay the first year or so until the durana gets established. It says it is an undergrowth for the first year or so until it takes hold, then it shows up with the other grasses. Then in the other plot, I will plant only Durana and bermuda grass, since red clover doesn't compete well with bermuda. If there is a strain that does, I would also plant it.
Another thing I was told that the bermudas that have been crossed with common bermudas, will revert to common bermuda after several years. I like common bermuda. They say Tifton, etc... will eventually turn back to common bermuda after several years. Why and how, I don't know. I didn't realize it produced a fertile seed to sprout, unless from the roots, it just loses the weaker gene. I would like to find some info on it to see if it is true. If anyone knows of a site that supports this theroy, I would like to know. I do like common bermuda and will probably plant it it with the Durana. The common bermuda here is really thick and stands well. I do not fertilize my yard, and if there is any moisture in the ground, and there is a solid stand, I have to go to a lower gear to mow it. That is what I want in the hay field for sure.
The white clovers show 24.7 Protein and 18.5 Dig. Protein.
Several years ago, I planted Orchard grass, red clover, and lespedeza. The man that sold the seed, tell me that the red clover would eventually turn into white clover. I didn't think much about it at the time. I had a beautiful stand of the grass and clover, and where there was a thin spot, the lespedeza stood strong. Also, on tops of hills, when the weather would warm up, the lespedza would show up there. After a few years, the red clover started thinning out and white clover showing up. I guess the red clover I planted might have been crossed with white clover cross somewhere along the way to produce the strain. He also told me that red clover was much like alfalfa in growing in the same plot, to lose it's stand after a while. I didn't try to reseed the red clover since the pasture was so good and everything was so fat.
I will still plant orchard grass, a good fescue, red clover, durana, and lespedeza in the new pasture, but will probably use it for hay the first year or so until the durana gets established. It says it is an undergrowth for the first year or so until it takes hold, then it shows up with the other grasses. Then in the other plot, I will plant only Durana and bermuda grass, since red clover doesn't compete well with bermuda. If there is a strain that does, I would also plant it.
Another thing I was told that the bermudas that have been crossed with common bermudas, will revert to common bermuda after several years. I like common bermuda. They say Tifton, etc... will eventually turn back to common bermuda after several years. Why and how, I don't know. I didn't realize it produced a fertile seed to sprout, unless from the roots, it just loses the weaker gene. I would like to find some info on it to see if it is true. If anyone knows of a site that supports this theroy, I would like to know. I do like common bermuda and will probably plant it it with the Durana. The common bermuda here is really thick and stands well. I do not fertilize my yard, and if there is any moisture in the ground, and there is a solid stand, I have to go to a lower gear to mow it. That is what I want in the hay field for sure.
Thanks, that's interesting.
It's claimed that bermuda will persist here, but I only know one guy that has gotten it to last more then a couple of years. He doesn;t graze it, strictly hay and it's a pure stand. We have one field that the red clover has almost taken over to the point of crowding out the fescue and OG. Seems the only thing that completes well with it is dock, shepards purse and thistle. Red clover doesn;t appear to be a real consitant seeder, but it hasn;t thinned out here, almost wish it would. When I discussed it with an agronimist he suggested a heavy dose of nitrogen so the grass could get ahead of it. I'm just too cheap for that, cows do well on the stuff, it dilutes the endophyte, persists and grows in the summer when the grasses are peteing out a little because of the heat.
We had one field of nothing that we limed and fertilized and planted nothing but ladino. Now after 5 years there isn;t a sign of the ladino left, but this year there's that wild looking white clover coming up all over the place.
Who knows, just another of Ol Ma Natures tricks I guess
dun
It's claimed that bermuda will persist here, but I only know one guy that has gotten it to last more then a couple of years. He doesn;t graze it, strictly hay and it's a pure stand. We have one field that the red clover has almost taken over to the point of crowding out the fescue and OG. Seems the only thing that completes well with it is dock, shepards purse and thistle. Red clover doesn;t appear to be a real consitant seeder, but it hasn;t thinned out here, almost wish it would. When I discussed it with an agronimist he suggested a heavy dose of nitrogen so the grass could get ahead of it. I'm just too cheap for that, cows do well on the stuff, it dilutes the endophyte, persists and grows in the summer when the grasses are peteing out a little because of the heat.
We had one field of nothing that we limed and fertilized and planted nothing but ladino. Now after 5 years there isn;t a sign of the ladino left, but this year there's that wild looking white clover coming up all over the place.
Who knows, just another of Ol Ma Natures tricks I guess
dun
OP
OP
All we can do is hope for the best. I'm like you on the fertilizer. I want some legumes in there to make up for the nitrogen. A soil conservationist wanted to plant solid bermuda on an area that was washing, and asked about applying 120-120-120 on it to get a strong stand. That sounds extreme to me and I have never heard of it being done. He was told it would be $95 an acre after Helena figured it out. Ouch! I think he took a deep breath and said he would get back with the fertilizer company. Bermuda is what crop farmers and gardeners call a kudzu type grass. If one root gets in your soil, you will fight it forever. It is amazing to me what will grow in one area and not in another. Just 40 miles away from here, they can't grow cotton, but can grow tobacco. No tobacco here. Bermuda stays in the coldest of winters and the hottest of summers. I wonder where the breaking point is between us and what makes the difference.
MrBilly
Well-known member
I have a few pictures of the Durana clovers aggressiveness at about one and one half years after it was planted into toxic fescue. These pics were taken in June of 2004. This year we see the same great stand of clover, but the fescue is recovering. I will add some recent pics to this album soon.
The Durana pics are at the end of this album which highlights some conservations practices we have implemented on one farm.
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictu ... 4291154745
The Durana pics are at the end of this album which highlights some conservations practices we have implemented on one farm.
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictu ... 4291154745
OP
OP
MrBilly, I am impressed with what you have done on your place. I really like the crossing at the creek. Is that a spring fed creek or a wet weather creek? When you redirected the water, did you do it to reduce the water at the crossing or to send the water to another part of your property for the wildlife as you stated? Are you having any trouble with the gravel being washed away from the fabric?
Now to to the clover. That is a good looking patch of clover and excellent pasture. I know your cattle are happy and fat. You stated that the clover will let some competition come back in a few years. Does it look like the grass is running the clover out in some areas? Does it stand tall enough with the grass to cut for hay or does it stay really low?
After looking at your album, my place is a good place to take a vacation if you are looking for somewhere to go or something to do. If you have any fabric left over from your crossing, bring it with you when you come! :lol:
Now to to the clover. That is a good looking patch of clover and excellent pasture. I know your cattle are happy and fat. You stated that the clover will let some competition come back in a few years. Does it look like the grass is running the clover out in some areas? Does it stand tall enough with the grass to cut for hay or does it stay really low?
After looking at your album, my place is a good place to take a vacation if you are looking for somewhere to go or something to do. If you have any fabric left over from your crossing, bring it with you when you come! :lol:
MrBilly
Well-known member
Chuckie":tg53c85t said:
Chuckie,
It is a spring fed creek that takes the overflow from two ponds. They run mildly all year. When we have heavy rains there is some gravel washed away. I don't think this would work well in a fast running stream. Actuallly we did not redirect the creeks. One of them filled with silt and redirected itself by spliting into two. We just had a guy come in with a large derek (spelling?) and make it back into one creek.
No the grass will never run the clover out. I aksed Carl Hoveland last year whether I should drill some fescue back into it, he said no it wont' work. He also told me that I had followed his directions so well about keeping up the K and P that I probably contributed to its very aggressiveness. I fertilized after the first year to add some P and K. He said don't do that for a while until the grass comes back. I'm happy not to at the cost of these commodities .
As far as the height goes, I have two feelings. Two years before we put in the Durana, we had planted Regal and Oseola white clover, both on Hoveland's recommendation - prior to the release of Durana. It certainly was taller. When I had Dr. Andrae visit with us after the first year of the Durana, we had clover 11 inches tall. I asked if that was Durana or the Regal? He said it thought it was the Durana. Got me it it was? A friend of mine put Durana in a patch out behind his house last fall - as a food plot, and he says the stuff is almost knee high this spring. So, I guess it can grow tall enought to bale, but under aggressive grazing all you see is a very tight and low to the ground clover, thus it is so short the cows can't eat it and that is probably why it is so persistant also?
Thanks for the invitation, but I think I have my hands full here. We take one day off per year and leave town, and I already did that this year.
Billy
Crowderfarms
Well-known member
MrBilly.
You have what looks to be a "model" operation! I'm thoroughly impressed. Thanks for sharing it with us! ;-)
You have what looks to be a "model" operation! I'm thoroughly impressed. Thanks for sharing it with us! ;-)
