Driving in circles

[Dave]

I spent all yesterday dragging a pasture harrow around the front field. 85 cows on that field for 3 1/2 months there was no shortage of cow pies to break up and spread out. Now it is raining and has rained all night. This should make to grass jump out of the ground. We got the cows off that field last Wednesday. Last year because of the fire we didn't get them moved until May 10. Moving them that late really hurt hay production. This year the early move and lots of spring rain the hay production should be back up. Irrigation is going to be short. But having just about double our normal April rain will really help. However, all day sitting on the tractor driving in circles. I am glad I am not a farmer.

 

[RDFF]

I'm always surprised when I hear of guys going out and breaking up cowpies... and I'm equally always surprised at how I see them disappear almost magically when the ground thaws out and the soil biology gets revved up, all on their own.

I'm not judging anyone when I say that... but my attitude has always been to just leave them. True, I generally don't make hay as a general rule on my pastures where I winter AND summer my cattle. I feed them by unrolling hay right on the same pastures they're on all the time... they never leave them, other than through normal rotation. In winter, they have free range of all of them, and I do whatever rotation I intend by changing where I feed them. But in areas like behind a grove or where I want to do some really heavy application to improve the poor soil, etc., the cowpies are pretty much touching each other, and in winter, it's a real pain to drive over those 5" high piles of crap!

Within a month of thaw up, the ground is smooth, and the grass is growing right on up through, and ultimately, you can't even tell that it's the same spot anymore. IF I were to cut hay on some of these areas (which I do) I just cut slightly high (a good practice anyway), and I don't get any manure in the hay. I also then can rake a bit high (I'm using a basket rake, NOT a wheel rake...), and the hay is clean. After many years of watching those cowpies disappear, I just see no reason to go out and drive in circles...

But perhaps in your conditions, it's necessary...

 

[Mark Reynolds]

I spent all yesterday dragging a pasture harrow around the front field. 85 cows on that field for 3 1/2 months there was no shortage of cow pies to break up and spread out. Now it is raining and has rained all night. This should make to grass jump out of the ground. We got the cows off that field last Wednesday. Last year because of the fire we didn't get them moved until May 10. Moving them that late really hurt hay production. This year the early move and lots of spring rain the hay production should be back up. Irrigation is going to be short. But having just about double our normal April rain will really help. However, all day sitting on the tractor driving in circles. I am glad I am not a farmer.

I've spent 9 years out west to understand the difference between a farmer and a rancher. However, I grew up in Indiana and everyone involved in agriculture was a 'farmer'. A 'rancher was someone out west that owned 'a whole lot' of cows and had land as far as you could see. I'm back east in Ohio for the past 17 years, but that still comes to mind when someone makes a reference to the difference, or that they are the same.

 

[Dave]

The cows are on this field from January 1 to mid April. I do that because the other fields have hiding places where the cows can go off to hide while calving. And you can only check those spots on foot or horseback. 85 cows on a 37 acre field for 3 1/2 months leave a lot of cow manure. There are areas you could walk several hundred yards only stepping on cow pies. This is a hay field. That is its primary use. It is flat flood irrigated field. I don't unroll hay. But I flake it off. By spring it is difficult to find a spot which hasn't been fed on. Pastures never get harrowed. The vast majority are too steep to get on with a tractor or other wheeled vehicles.

 

[1982vett]

Different environments, different methods...

 

[Mark Reynolds]

I'm always surprised when I hear of guys going out and breaking up cowpies... and I'm equally always surprised at how I see them disappear almost magically when the ground thaws out and the soil biology gets revved up, all on their own.

I'm not judging anyone when I say that... but my attitude has always been to just leave them. True, I generally don't make hay as a general rule on my pastures where I winter AND summer my cattle. I feed them by unrolling hay right on the same pastures they're on all the time... they never leave them, other than through normal rotation. In winter, they have free range of all of them, and I do whatever rotation I intend by changing where I feed them. But in areas like behind a grove or where I want to do some really heavy application to improve the poor soil, etc., the cowpies are pretty much touching each other, and in winter, it's a real pain to drive over those 5" high piles of crap!

Within a month of thaw up, the ground is smooth, and the grass is growing right on up through, and ultimately, you can't even tell that it's the same spot anymore. IF I were to cut hay on some of these areas (which I do) I just cut slightly high (a good practice anyway), and I don't get any manure in the hay. I also then can rake a bit high (I'm using a basket rake, NOT a wheel rake...), and the hay is clean. After many years of watching those cowpies disappear, I just see no reason to go out and drive in circles...

But perhaps in your conditions, it's necessary...

It's not 'necessary', although you covered it with that statement on conditions. Cow pies can take up to 3 years to degrade there, and possibly longer, although not as likely in a hayfield.

 

[Dave]

It's not 'necessary', although you covered it with that statement on conditions. Cow pies can take up to 3 years to degrade there, and possibly longer, although not as likely in a hayfield.

Yep, I got to thinking about it. I could show cow pies in the pasture which are easily 3 years old. In the hay field. Instead of a cow pie which is covering a square foot where nothing will grow between now and July, there is now a lot of little pieces on 7 or 8 square feet which grass can grow around.

 

[Silver]

I run the diamond harrows over where I feed in the hay fields. It picks up a lot of the sisal twine which makes running a hay rake over it much more manageable. I have also found that if I don’t harrow it no matter if I cut as high as is practical that the ash content in my hay samples go through the roof.
Also, if I don’t harrow it the ice stays under the turds well into late May which doesn’t do me any favours.

 

[EasTex]

I typically drag in April after the ground softens up enough from rain. I haven’t done it yet due to lack of rain. My drag is made from heavy pipe and the main reason I drag is to try and level out the pastures from hog rooting. They really do some serious damage. Breaking cow pies and knocking down fire ant mounds is a side benefit.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

I typically drag in April after the ground softens up enough from rain. I haven’t done it yet due to lack of rain. My drag is made from heavy pipe and the main reason I drag is to try and level out the pastures from hog rooting. They really do some serious damage. Breaking cow pies and knocking down fire ant mounds is a side benefit.

Ya know, if you just went out and caught all those hogs and put nose rings on them, that problem wouldn't be so bad! I certainly understand what you are saying there! Do the fields often require any seeding along with the drag?

 

[RDFF]

Yeah, I get it. It's all about the context you're operating in. But for me, here in MY context, the more I see, the more I realize that it's just not necessary. In a drier environement, I could see that they would last alot longer for sure. We generally have enough snow melt to provide the moisture for adequate biological activity early in the spring to break them down... and it always surprises me to see them just kind of shrink away into the soil.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

Yeah, I get it. It's all about the context you're operating in. But for me, here in MY context, the more I see, the more I realize that it's just not necessary. In a drier environement, I could see that they would last alot longer for sure. We generally have enough snow melt to provide the moisture for adequate biological activity early in the spring to break them down... and it always surprises me to see them just kind of shrink away into the soil.

Dung beetles do a number on them here. I would think that might be the case in MN as well.

 

[EasTex]

Ya know, if you just went out and caught all those hogs and put nose rings on them, that problem wouldn't be so bad! I certainly understand what you are saying there! Do the fields often require any seeding along with the drag?

I don’t do any seeding with the drag but I would think if the Bahia grass has gone to seed that dragging over it would help spread seed. I also drag through the remnants of hay that was fed out during winter.

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

I manage pastures using livestock rotation. Horses don't eat the lush grass that grows around their dung but cattle will. Cattle wont eat grass that grows around their pies but the horses will. In addition, large flocks of wild turkeys forage across the fields scratching manure and flinging it in all directions. Another thing - crows and ravens turn over dried pies to get the bugs underneath.

 

[Dave]

I did some seeding on the bare or weak places in the hay field before I drug it. Ended up having tractor issues before I got all the seed out. I did get the dry land mix on the old gravel bar seeded. A mix of Crested, Intermediate, and Slender Wheatgrass. Once it dries a bit i will apply the seed that is in the box. The rest will have to wait until fall to get applied.

 

[Rafter S]

. . . This should make to grass jump out of the ground.

In the spring when we'd had a good rain with warm nights, my father would say "If you listen real close you can hear the grass growing at night."

 

[Dave]

In the spring when we'd had a good rain with warm nights, my father would say "If you listen real close you can hear the grass growing at night."

Well we had several good rains for this area. But the temperature seems to have dropped back from 60/40 which grows grass to 50/30 that will slow it down

 

[greybeard]

I would think it also depends on the type forage/grass you have. I've seen some places that never drug the cowpiles down and you can tell it, both by just looking and driving over it. Clumpy all over because the grass grew where the piles were. (no, they weren't fire ant mounds)

 

[GoWyo]

Well we had several good rains for this area. But the temperature seems to have dropped back from 60/40 which grows grass to 50/30 that will slow it down

That always seems to be the trade off. I'd rather be damp ground and too cold to grow than what we have here this year which is powder dry ground and plenty warm to grow. At least you know that when it does warm up the grass is gonna pop.

 

[Chuckie]

I'm always surprised when I hear of guys going out and breaking up cowpies... and I'm equally always surprised at how I see them disappear almost magically when the ground thaws out and the soil biology gets revved up, all on their own.

I'm not judging anyone when I say that... but my attitude has always been to just leave them. True, I generally don't make hay as a general rule on my pastures where I winter AND summer my cattle. I feed them by unrolling hay right on the same pastures they're on all the time... they never leave them, other than through normal rotation. In winter, they have free range of all of them, and I do whatever rotation I intend by changing where I feed them. But in areas like behind a grove or where I want to do some really heavy application to improve the poor soil, etc., the cowpies are pretty much touching each other, and in winter, it's a real pain to drive over those 5" high piles of crap!

Within a month of thaw up, the ground is smooth, and the grass is growing right on up through, and ultimately, you can't even tell that it's the same spot anymore. IF I were to cut hay on some of these areas (which I do) I just cut slightly high (a good practice anyway), and I don't get any manure in the hay. I also then can rake a bit high (I'm using a basket rake, NOT a wheel rake...), and the hay is clean. After many years of watching those cowpies disappear, I just see no reason to go out and drive in circles...

But perhaps in your conditions, it's necessary...

Earth worms and insects work the pile from below. Just like leaves, they come up and pull what they can underneath. The Dung beetles in the summer just make it happen quicker. Sort of like getting your groceries delivered to you at home. The worms are smiling. They leave gifts of earthworm casings on the top of the soil.
Sounds like your pastures are not over grazed. That is great!!