Dream on EPDs

[Idaman]

How about some ideas of just what we would like to see in changes to or additions to the associationes epds.

I would like to see the AHA adopt something similar to the AAA $EN and $W epds.

I would also like to see a calving interval epd. That might make the WW more honest or you might have a condition score tied to WW. The calving interval would help the assoces because hopefully more calves would be recorded.

 

[MO_cows]

Idaman, I like the calving interval idea. That is useful information. But it isn't so complicated it has to be an EPD. It could be just an average, the cow's lifetime average calving interval and publish this on her lifetime production report. (I'm assuming AHA has one of those??) You'd have to come up with some way of dealing with flush cows so a good cow that calved late only due to time out for flushing didn't get penalized.

 

[Idaman]

Idaman, I like the calving interval idea. That is useful information. But it isn't so complicated it has to be an EPD. It could be just an average, the cow's lifetime average calving interval and publish this on her lifetime production report. (I'm assuming AHA has one of those??) You'd have to come up with some way of dealing with flush cows so a good cow that calved late only due to time out for flushing didn't get penalized.

I hadn't thought of the flush problem but maybe something could be worked out or noted.

Because these don't take a whole new bunch of measurement taking by the breeders their implementation should be fairly simple. It also might make for more accuracy in the epd numbers because although I am absolutely not smart enough to be a statistician I can't but believe that it would be much harder to skew a combination than a single epd.

Take WW for instance. If it goes too high then the calving interval could be affected by breed back issues.

 

[Beef Man]

We ask for and get a lifetime production record on our cowherd and it do'es have a usefull life calving interval. As for more EPD"s, I wonder how many more we can utilize. Some of have been in this biz so long that we can go back to those days when there was'nt any records at all. Back when we started the old IPR in MT. ther was a lot of breeders that said it was a bad way to use records to select breeding stock. That was simply ww and yw and a 3or 4 numbers to identify type and quality. We've come a long way and we all know there is many things to select for but how much or how many records can we honestly use? I'm to old to keep up with what we got. Just a thoughtfull question.

 

[Brandonm22]

The lack of a $EN or maintenance energy EPD is the most glaring flaw in the Hereford EPDs. If anyone can find a logical argument for NOT including that number I would like to hear it. I don't know how you would calculate it, but Herford could really benefit from a tenderness EPD (if you could figure out how to make it have some accuracy). Nothing matters more for the consumer's beef eating experience than a tender end product. ANY way to identify those lines that really excel in that trait would pay huge dividends down the road.

 

[Hereford76]

or you might have a condition score tied to WW

that would be a number that would be useful

 

[LFF]

The calving interval and number of calves is available for authorized users to see. I do not know why they have a different log in for guest to see the epd data base. That is something that could be changed. Condition of cow at weaning is also sumitted however I don't think that it is associated with any of the current epd's. If memory serves me correctly I've heard that they are working on a energy epd that uses the cows condition at weaning but it is not available yet.

 

[Idaman]

The calving interval and number of calves is available for authorized users to see. I do not know why they have a different log in for guest to see the epd data base. That is something that could be changed. Condition of cow at weaning is also sumitted however I don't think that it is associated with any of the current epd's. If memory serves me correctly I've heard that they are working on a energy epd that uses the cows condition at weaning but it is not available yet.

That is great news about the $EN. Hurry up.

The calving interval and no. of calves you are talking about must be in the individual cow's progeny group. That is why I think it would be fairly easy to make an within breed epd out of those already available numbers.

The condition score is submitted but I can't find it published anywhere.

 

[Brandonm22]

If we start making condition score at weaning public, then that forces breeders to inflate the numbers by feeding more concentrate and there is already a lot of pressure on that from buyers who want to see 7 and 8 weight actual weaning weights and fat cows when they visit a farm.

 

[VanC]

If we start making condition score at weaning public, then that forces breeders to inflate the numbers by feeding more concentrate and there is already a lot of pressure on that from buyers who want to see 7 and 8 weight actual weaning weights and fat cows when they visit a farm.

The way I see it, the breeders aren't being "forced" to do anything. Do you think "inflating the numbers" is dishonest? If so, do you think that dishonesty is the fault of the buyers or the sellers?

 

[Idaman]

If we start making condition score at weaning public, then that forces breeders to inflate the numbers by feeding more concentrate and there is already a lot of pressure on that from buyers who want to see 7 and 8 weight actual weaning weights and fat cows when they visit a farm.

The way I see it, the breeders aren't being "forced" to do anything. Do you think "inflating the numbers" is dishonest? If so, do you think that dishonesty is the fault of the buyers or the sellers?

I take it you're saying "Give em a little more rope".

 

[vclavin]

The calving interval and number of calves is available for authorized users to see. I do not know why they have a different log in for guest to see the epd data base. That is something that could be changed. Condition of cow at weaning is also sumitted however I don't think that it is associated with any of the current epd's. If memory serves me correctly I've heard that they are working on a energy epd that uses the cows condition at weaning but it is not available yet.

The $E for Angus does this but also ties in milk. If you select too heavy for $E you will lose milk. As always, select carefully and with moderation and with all other EPD's in consideration. Mouthful :lol:
Valerie

 

[backhoeboogie]

Good honest cattle folks seem to ge getting fewer all the time.

Cattle on pasture and no supplement (other than salt and mineral) is what I want to see.

 

[Brandonm22]

Serious cattle breeders supply a product. If the market for that product wants to see high weaning weights and fat cows then yes demand forces breeders to do whatever it takes to fill that demand.