Does ribeye area = thicker =more muscle?

[redangus]

Is the ribeye score the best indicator of thickness and muscle?

Notice I have 4 stars now. I would assume that will come with a little more respect.

 

[MikeC]

Is the ribeye score the best indicator of thickness and muscle?

Notice I have 4 stars now. I would assume that will come with a little more respect.

Ribeye score pertains to more lean meat yield. As far as I know it does not indicate thickness of muscle.

 

[redangus]

So no, on the width of the animal?

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Is the ribeye score the best indicator of thickness and muscle?

Notice I have 4 stars now. I would assume that will come with a little more respect.

I respect you as a person not how many times we bang on the keyboard ;-)

 

[MikeC]

So no, on the width of the animal?

It's basically impossible to look at cattle and judge ribeye size.

Even my ultrasound tech, who has scanned thousands and thousands says he is fooled every day on REA.

 

[jkwilson]

It's basically impossible to look at cattle and judge ribeye size.

Even my ultrasound tech, who has scanned thousands and thousands says he is fooled every day on REA.

Heard the same thing from an experienced tech last weekend.

 

[George Monk]

So what epds do you think will thicken up cattle or is this a selection made using phenotype? only one star so be gentle ;-)

 

[DOC HARRIS]

George -

When you use the term "thicken up cattle", what specificially do you mean? Do you mean thickness as "across the width of the entire animal, or - thickness of 'rib-eye' area? or- thickness of the hind quarters??

DOC HARRIS

 

[George Monk]

Doc
One of the concerns I have in my cattle is they are thin over the top. I would like to thicken the shoulders and loin area.
thanks

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

IMO - I NEVER want to thicken across the shoulders :shock:
Granted there are cattle that "surprise" people with larger than expected or smaller than expected - but in reality REA adjusted to 365 day age and based on 100# of body weight, is a good indicator of muscling.
And yes, IMO, muscling = thickness. Let's get real, the USDA feeder grading system is based on #1, #2 #3 muscling - and that's based on the thickness of the calf.
A good indicator of muscling is the forearm, rear leg, rump & loin. Now, you have to be able to SEE the difference between muscling & FAT. That's why the forearm is a good place to look, if you are unsure of fat vs muscle.

 

[la4angus]

Doc
One of the concerns I have in my cattle is they are thin over the top. I would like to thicken the shoulders and loin area.
thanks

The thing to do is breed to bull's that has more thickness than average over the loin. As Jeanne says be careful about getting the cattle to thick in the shoulders.

 

[SEC]

This topic always makes me laugh a little.
Especially the comment, "Oh boy, he's got muscle all the way down to his hock, I can't believe it.

Fat deposits are certainly misleading.

There aren't a lot of cattle that truly sire a nice loin making a good top, not a fat top.


REA can't indicate muscle expression, otherwise all of these rotten highly noted "carcass" cattle would ruin the Angus breed.

Lots of thick cattle have moderate REA measurements. Secondly we are assuming that the images are being read similiarly.
There are few Angus bulls in the breed today that would actually sire thickness.


Just remember muscle is round, not square.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Jeanne and la4angus are correct. The "thickness" term is readily misconstrued to incorporate the entire beef 'body' from neck to rump, and while that may appear to be a desirable trait - if the shoulder area is too wide (thick) the progeny from that type of animal will have a difficult time at birth, and the females with that phenotype characteristic will have a difficult time calving. "Smoothness and balance" are considered two very desirable traits along with "thickness" when seeking desirable phenotype traits for breeding stock particularly! As Jeanne said, "Fore-arm, rear leg, rump and loin" are the areas of concern. They are the "Money Cuts", and, granted, you should be able to "SEE" the muscling" in those areas, BUT - - when you are deciding on seedstock to purchase for your herd - - In My Opinion - - one should develop a 'touch' or 'feel', and be able to ascertain the difference between fat under the hide and more firm muscle tissue - along with the 'suppleness' of the hide. That may sound a little complex - but I know that it can be done.

DOC HARRIS

 

[George Monk]

I can see the good points of this discussion and am thankful. I didn't consider calving issues.
Doc I agree that a person could develop the touch for this as that is what a lot of judges do when judging steers. however that really would work for selecting an AI sire.
What do you learned people suggest then to be the best criteria. What combination of EPD's do you think could help improve muscling and yet not cause calving issues. Is this were the CED comes into play?
Also is this why many of the angus producers I talk to stay away from GridMaker??? We just had a nice heifer calf yesterday from GM. It did way 90#.
Again thanks for the discussion this is the kind of discussion I register for on this forum. Rather than the strange tangents that are often taken on different subjects.
George

 

[SEC]

GM, just remember that narrow shoulders mean narrow butt. This doesn't mean that an animal is bad, but you won't find muscle with narrow shoulders. Don't get me wrong, open shouldered cattle aren't needed either but there needs to be some sort of indication of being stout.
In general you won't find many Angus cattle that are tough looking in the front end.

To much birth means calving problems
Birthweights to light might later pose calving problems as well.

 

[dun]

GM, just remember that narrow shoulders mean narrow butt. This doesn't mean that an animal is bad, but you won't find muscle with narrow shoulders. Don't get me wrong, open shouldered cattle aren't needed either but there needs to be some sort of indication of being stout.
In general you won't find many Angus cattle that are tough looking in the front end.

To much birth means calving problems
Birthweights to light might later pose calving problems as well.

I love these absolute generalitys, particularly when they're wrong. Not all cattle are narrow from stem to stern, think of awedge when the animal is viewed from above.

dun

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Well put Dun. I want my heifers & BULLS to look like a wedge. Big butt and flat shoulders. I have a herd of cattle like that. Now if you are talking NARROW in the floor of the chest, than yes, they are probably not carrying any width in the rear. There is a lot of difference between narrow fronted no muscle cattle and smooth flat shoulders. Natural width between front and rear legs is an indication of muscling. But, you are right, there is also a lot of difference with open shoulder cattle.

 

[SEC]

Don't worry Dun, for those that would understand cattle it is a given that there bull are wedge shaped with the front being wider back being narrower, vice versa with cows.

There is nothing general about that statement as it's not difficult to sort cattle and when they are coming towards a person you can see what their hind end is going to look like.