dispersal prices

[angus9259]

Registered herd in WI dispersed on superior today. Decent bred cows were still getting $2000-2500. Mediocre were getting $1500-2000. Surprise was calves. Registered spring heifers and bulls were getting as low as $600-800. Premium calves were $1200. Reckon that coulda still been in the $1.70-1.80 range on some of them though...

 

[Stocker Steve]

Registered herd in WI dispersed on superior today. Registered spring heifers and bulls were getting as low as $600-800. Premium calves were $1200.

They are advertised around here for $1500 to $3500. I don't think they will sell for that.

 

[Ebenezer]

Must have been the wrong herd prefix, using the wrong herd prefixes in AI bulls, did not feed heavy enough to match big named prefix herds or maybe they sold for what they were worth. How much more should a registered animal be valued over one without papers?

 

[talltimber]

What is the correct herd prefix? I've heard that phrase a couple of times recently it seems like. Is it area specific or is it bigger than that? Or is it just a reference in general to the big producers?

 

[Ebenezer]

What is the correct herd prefix?

"Correct" in terms of exorbitant prices or extreme promotion. More of a fad or commotion deal. Hoping for a coattail effect. Has nothing to do with animal quality or maybe another way to read the tea leaves is that animal quality is secondary to who (prefix) raised them.

I still believe that the small and average herds built by folks trying to do the best they can in the real world and without the fluff generally have the best cattle and should use more home raised or locally raised bulls. They know true value of livestock because they do not have or desire to waste money. Sure, there is a learning curve and we all go through the look across the fence at animals that we think must be better because of high sales averages, who buys, because it made it in the ___ semen catalog, better promotion, better feeding, ... But both in the herd and in the semen catalogs, a lot of animals flash big and disappear. The quicker we all understand it the better we are going to use our time and money.

 

[talltimber]

You and my neighbor, a former Association member and registered seedstock producer, could swap statements with each other and it wouldn't change a thing about what the other said. He's putting a longhorn bull on first calvers and raising his own bulls (not out of the longhorns). I am contemplating the same.

 

[Ebenezer]

You and my neighbor, a former Association member and registered seedstock producer, could swap statements with each other and it wouldn't change a thing about what the other said. He's putting a longhorn bull on first calvers and raising his own bulls (not out of the longhorns). I am contemplating the same.

Tried LH bulls years ago. Found out it was easier and more profitable to get high BW out of the cow herd and use bulls that would sire calves with more market appeal. Seems moderation is the answer to a lot of things. Cures, such as selection of next bulls, often explain or highlight the problems at home. Living = learning. If you can accurately pick your cows that do things right and fit the environment and management, the sons will make life and cattle an extreme pleasure. That is one reason I am trying to learn more about Bonsma traits without going through modern prophets with skewed data.

 

[talltimber]

You and my neighbor, a former Association member and registered seedstock producer, could swap statements with each other and it wouldn't change a thing about what the other said. He's putting a longhorn bull on first calvers and raising his own bulls (not out of the longhorns). I am contemplating the same.

Tried LH bulls years ago. Found out it was easier and more profitable to get high BW out of the cow herd and use bulls that would sire calves with more market appeal. Seems moderation is the answer to a lot of things. Cures, such as selection of next bulls, often explain or highlight the problems at home. Living = learning. If you can accurately pick your cows that do things right and fit the environment and management, the sons will make life and cattle an extreme pleasure. That is one reason I am trying to learn more about Bonsma traits without going through modern prophets with skewed data.

Could you break that down for me a little further? I am taking it as the type of bull someone chooses, indicates what they have to work with at home? Do you run the same bull on heifers and cows (or at least the same bw range)?

A little background from my end. My cows are no problem (I had a dead calf but is an anomaly here out of my old cows). My herd bull throws little calves. I would breed my two y.o. and the yearlings to him if he wasn't so heavy on a cow. He lays on them. So, either I risk putting him on my two yo and maybe putting a LH on the yearlings, or I try to find a yearling bull to put on both of those groups. I am leaving a few calves bulls this time, choosing out of a few of my best cows, some as old as 10 yo that I will pick calves from, that still have their tails and hold their weight/handle the heat well. My bull is 8 yo and dread finding a replacement. He holds his weight really well and has only had one sore foot issue since I bought him 3 years ago. I think he hurt it on frozen ground, spreading his toes out excessively, no foot rot/fescue foot I don't think.

 

[Ebenezer]

Could you break that down for me a little further? I am taking it as the type of bull someone chooses, indicates what they have to work with at home? Do you run the same bull on heifers and cows (or at least the same bw range)?

When folks go out to find the next herd bull(s), they figure out what they need or problems to cure. Knew a guy who made a long and big to-to over his great LH bulls and when all was said and done the issue was that he had bred for growth and paid little attention to CED, BW or whatever you want to watch and he was losing heifers. So the greatness of the LHs was no greatness but sheer need to survive. The problem was in the herd.

Heifers: I prefer a bull with +CED and +BW. I do not want to stack low BW. Sometimes that is what you find that works so you weave it in. But I do not want super high growth bulls on heifers as they need to breed back and raise a decent calf on marginal conditions here. Not starved but nothing special.

I avoid any real, genetic high BW bulls. I have no desire for a herd of outliers. If I have options, I will go with a bull on heifers that has less BW (70+ pounds) but not always. I have used bulls with BW in 90s but I knew the sire and dam history and also knew the speed and ease of his birth. It is easier to birth a snake rather than a basketball. Easiest thing to do to control hybrid growth of calves on first calf heifers is to use a half brother that you know was up and nursing in 20 minutes and had the right shape; vigor shows me that he does not express inbreeding regression as a newborn.

A little background from my end. My cows are no problem (I had a dead calf but is an anomaly here out of my old cows). My herd bull throws little calves. I would breed my two y.o. and the yearlings to him if he wasn't so heavy on a cow. He lays on them. So, either I risk putting him on my two yo and maybe putting a LH on the yearlings, or I try to find a yearling bull to put on both of those groups. I am leaving a few calves bulls this time, choosing out of a few of my best cows, some as old as 10 yo that I will pick calves from, that still have their tails and hold their weight/handle the heat well. My bull is 8 yo and dread finding a replacement. He holds his weight really well and has only had one sore foot issue since I bought him 3 years ago. I think he hurt it on frozen ground, spreading his toes out excessively, no foot rot/fescue foot I don't think.

I assume the tail issue is fescue related? That really has narrowed the selection in the Angus genepool for me. Some work and many don't. I would use one of the bull calves on heifer next spring or next calving season. Not sure that I can tell you where to find a replacement bull. Now is the time to go out and find one slick as a peeled onion.

 

[talltimber]

Yes, switch loss due to fescue. I don't have many that have lost them to fescue, a few, but I was just going to use that as another tool to make my decision on which bull calves to hold.

Thank you for your input, very interesting info. Just to clarify, what do you consider stacking low BW? Putting low bw bulls on heifers out of low bw bulls? What ced would negate a higher bw, say with a bw of 5, what would you look for in a ced to make that bw more manageable? What is your bw epd that would be your upper limit and still be considered a low bw? My bull has a individual bw epd of 3.3. I have seen some calves out of another bull in that same range that I wouldn't want to breed to heifers

I apologize for taking over the thread. I have a habit of asking too many questions and sometimes overwhelming people, but I try to quit before I wear out my welcome. It's something that I am very interested in. Not what necessarily a university study says, but what tidbits experienced cattlemen drop occasionally. Those are hard to find online. (So if anyone knows if Ebenezer doesn't have cattle please fill me in now!) :lol2:

 

[Ebenezer]

Yes, switch loss due to fescue. I don't have many that have lost them to fescue, a few, but I was just going to use that as another tool to make my decision on which bull calves to hold.

If you can progress past tail loss the whole hair coat will make more progress for you. Any bull or cow that cannot shed is very suspect. Bulls should look almost hairless this time of year.

Thank you for your input, very interesting info. Just to clarify, what do you consider stacking low BW? Putting low bw bulls on heifers out of low bw bulls? What ced would negate a higher bw, say with a bw of 5, what would you look for in a ced to make that bw more manageable? What is your bw epd that would be your upper limit and still be considered a low bw? My bull has a individual bw epd of 3.3. I have seen some calves out of another bull in that same range that I wouldn't want to breed to heifers

Probably just an opinion: 1 to 3 is fine and works on both ends: heifer and cows. 3 and 3+ BW will need strong proof on +CED and you will need to supplement first calf heifers because those calves will grow more and demand more milk. Another opinion: use the EPDs you want in spite of what you have in the cow herd. Would not go to BW of 5 as I do not want to breed outliers and high BW will bother you in a generation or two. Go all minus BW too long and I think cattle diminish too much. Odd that some older bulls show EPDs of low BW and negative CED. Used one like that this time AI. I wonder but did not have problem in the past. Rump shape is of interest to me.

I apologize for taking over the thread. I have a habit of asking too many questions and sometimes overwhelming people, but I try to quit before I wear out my welcome. It's something that I am very interested in. Not what necessarily a university study says, but what tidbits experienced cattlemen drop occasionally. Those are hard to find online. (So if anyone knows if Ebenezer doesn't have cattle please fill me in now!) :lol2:

I hear that he is a scoundrel, has linebred chickens, sheep and cattle and is an old codger. Might better watch out for what he says! :lol2:

 

[TexasBred]

Yes, switch loss due to fescue. I don't have many that have lost them to fescue, a few, but I was just going to use that as another tool to make my decision on which bull calves to hold.

If you can progress past tail loss the whole hair coat will make more progress for you. Any bull or cow that cannot shed is very suspect. Bulls should look almost hairless this time of year.

Thank you for your input, very interesting info. Just to clarify, what do you consider stacking low BW? Putting low bw bulls on heifers out of low bw bulls? What ced would negate a higher bw, say with a bw of 5, what would you look for in a ced to make that bw more manageable? What is your bw epd that would be your upper limit and still be considered a low bw? My bull has a individual bw epd of 3.3. I have seen some calves out of another bull in that same range that I wouldn't want to breed to heifers

Probably just an opinion: 1 to 3 is fine and works on both ends: heifer and cows. 3 and 3+ BW will need strong proof on +CED and you will need to supplement first calf heifers because those calves will grow more and demand more milk. Another opinion: use the EPDs you want in spite of what you have in the cow herd. Would not go to BW of 5 as I do not want to breed outliers and high BW will bother you in a generation or two. Go all minus BW too long and I think cattle diminish too much. Odd that some older bulls show EPDs of low BW and negative CED. Used one like that this time AI. I wonder but did not have problem in the past. Rump shape is of interest to me.

I apologize for taking over the thread. I have a habit of asking too many questions and sometimes overwhelming people, but I try to quit before I wear out my welcome. It's something that I am very interested in. Not what necessarily a university study says, but what tidbits experienced cattlemen drop occasionally. Those are hard to find online. (So if anyone knows if Ebenezer doesn't have cattle please fill me in now!) :lol2:

I hear that he is a scoundrel, has linebred chickens, sheep and cattle and is an old codger. Might better watch out for what he says! :lol2:

One other member said he had one old stump broke jersey, a sterile mare and a queer rooster. Don't know about his cattle. ;-)

 

[Ebenezer]

Yes, switch loss due to fescue. I don't have many that have lost them to fescue, a few, but I was just going to use that as another tool to make my decision on which bull calves to hold.

If you can progress past tail loss the whole hair coat will make more progress for you. Any bull or cow that cannot shed is very suspect. Bulls should look almost hairless this time of year.

Thank you for your input, very interesting info. Just to clarify, what do you consider stacking low BW? Putting low bw bulls on heifers out of low bw bulls? What ced would negate a higher bw, say with a bw of 5, what would you look for in a ced to make that bw more manageable? What is your bw epd that would be your upper limit and still be considered a low bw? My bull has a individual bw epd of 3.3. I have seen some calves out of another bull in that same range that I wouldn't want to breed to heifers

Probably just an opinion: 1 to 3 is fine and works on both ends: heifer and cows. 3 and 3+ BW will need strong proof on +CED and you will need to supplement first calf heifers because those calves will grow more and demand more milk. Another opinion: use the EPDs you want in spite of what you have in the cow herd. Would not go to BW of 5 as I do not want to breed outliers and high BW will bother you in a generation or two. Go all minus BW too long and I think cattle diminish too much. Odd that some older bulls show EPDs of low BW and negative CED. Used one like that this time AI. I wonder but did not have problem in the past. Rump shape is of interest to me.

I apologize for taking over the thread. I have a habit of asking too many questions and sometimes overwhelming people, but I try to quit before I wear out my welcome. It's something that I am very interested in. Not what necessarily a university study says, but what tidbits experienced cattlemen drop occasionally. Those are hard to find online. (So if anyone knows if Ebenezer doesn't have cattle please fill me in now!) :lol2:

I hear that he is a scoundrel, has linebred chickens, sheep and cattle and is an old codger. Might better watch out for what he says! :lol2:

One other member said he had one old stump broke jersey, a sterile mare and a queer rooster. Don't know about his cattle. ;-)

In all of life, "I don't know" is an acceptable answer for all things that we do not know. But surely, even in TX, the National Enquirer is not a textbook! :shock:

 

[TexasBred]

If you can progress past tail loss the whole hair coat will make more progress for you. Any bull or cow that cannot shed is very suspect. Bulls should look almost hairless this time of year.

Probably just an opinion: 1 to 3 is fine and works on both ends: heifer and cows. 3 and 3+ BW will need strong proof on +CED and you will need to supplement first calf heifers because those calves will grow more and demand more milk. Another opinion: use the EPDs you want in spite of what you have in the cow herd. Would not go to BW of 5 as I do not want to breed outliers and high BW will bother you in a generation or two. Go all minus BW too long and I think cattle diminish too much. Odd that some older bulls show EPDs of low BW and negative CED. Used one like that this time AI. I wonder but did not have problem in the past. Rump shape is of interest to me.

I hear that he is a scoundrel, has linebred chickens, sheep and cattle and is an old codger. Might better watch out for what he says! :lol2:

One other member said he had one old stump broke jersey, a sterile mare and a queer rooster. Don't know about his cattle. ;-)

In all of life, "I don't know" is an acceptable answer for all things that we do not know. But surely, even in TX, the National Enquirer is not a textbook! :shock:

Lighten up Ebe....just making a joke or did you not see the wink emoti?? BTW "I don't know" is seldom an acceptable answer.

 

[talltimber]

One other member said he had one old stump broke jersey, a sterile mare and a queer rooster. Don't know about his cattle. ;-)

In all of life, "I don't know" is an acceptable answer for all things that we do not know. But surely, even in TX, the National Enquirer is not a textbook! :shock:

Lighten up Ebe....just making a joke or did you not see the wink emoti?? BTW "I don't know" is seldom an acceptable answer.[/quote]

I take it you prefer smoke blown up your fourth point of contact? :lol2:

 

[TexasBred]

In all of life, "I don't know" is an acceptable answer for all things that we do not know. But surely, even in TX, the National Enquirer is not a textbook! :shock:

Lighten up Ebe....just making a joke or did you not see the wink emoti?? BTW "I don't know" is seldom an acceptable answer.[/quote]

I take it you prefer smoke blown up your fourth point of contact? :lol2:

In your case "I don't know" seems to fit well and often.

 

[talltimber]

No argument there, but i prefer that over some blowhard that thinks he knows everything and tells his bs to be the truth.

 

[TexasBred]

No argument there, but i prefer that over some blowhard that thinks he knows everything and tells his bs to be the truth.

I presume you're aiming that at me. Not my fault you're dumb (and admitted it) and if I post it, you can take it to the bank buckwheat. If I know nothing about a topic unlike you, I keep my mouth shut and learn.

 

[talltimber]

No, but if you think the shoe fits then wear it. You know yourself better than I do. My point was, I would rather someone say they didn't know than blow smoke up my azz. But you apparently don't like it that way? That is odd to me. What I admitted to was that there is a lot of things I don't know. I'm sure you lack the humility to admit something like that.

If there is a topic that you don't know about being discussed, which I doubt there are any you would admit to, and to get questions answered that you have, you keep your mouth shut? That doesn't sound very effective.

buckwheat

(I like the sound of that. You mind if I use it? Thanks. It reminds me of an arrogant tejas fat man's sidekick I once met.)

 

[js1234]

Oh snap! LOL.