dishonest salebarns

[vclavin]

We have a salebarn 5 miles away from the cattle, animals lose 10% body weight taken there and only 3-4% hauled to a salebarn 75 miles away?
Valerie

 

[inbredredneck]

We have a salebarn 5 miles away from the cattle, animals lose 10% body weight taken there and only 3-4% hauled to a salebarn 75 miles away?
Valerie

I'd say somebodys got a scales thats needs adjustsments. Yous or theys.

 

[GMN]

We have a salebarn 5 miles away from the cattle, animals lose 10% body weight taken there and only 3-4% hauled to a salebarn 75 miles away?
Valerie

Thats what I wonder are the weights accurate, do they have a check up system by someone to see if their scales are working properly etc?? I odn't know I'm turned OFF by salebarns right now-I won't be going to any-anytime soon-

 

[inbredredneck]

We have a salebarn 5 miles away from the cattle, animals lose 10% body weight taken there and only 3-4% hauled to a salebarn 75 miles away?
Valerie

Thats what I wonder are the weights accurate, do they have a check up system by someone to see if their scales are working properly etc?? I odn't know I'm turned OFF by salebarns right now-I won't be going to any-anytime soon-

http://mda.mo.gov/weights/

 

[regolith]

inbredredneck - my meat buyer has assured me the scales are accurate and, as you show here, checked by the higher ups.

But it's really hard to *not* wonder when the largest cow in my herd - who showed over 600 kg on the weighband - is weighed at just over 400 kg at the meat works. And every year I have mature cull Jersey cows weighed at less than 300 kg liveweight although they're obviously far larger than the in-calf heifers weighed at 350 - 400 kg. Yes, I know the calf and a bit of fat cover on the bones makes a difference, but surely not that much - that's 25% less than what they should weigh in theory.

That's one reason why I'd like to have an on-farm set of scales. Till then, I have to simply trust that the weights I'm paid for are accurate - and simple logic suggests that's unlikely.

 

[3waycross]

inbredredneck - my meat buyer has assured me the scales are accurate and, as you show here, checked by the higher ups.

But it's really hard to *not* wonder when the largest cow in my herd - who showed over 600 kg on the weighband - is weighed at just over 400 kg at the meat works. And every year I have mature cull Jersey cows weighed at less than 300 kg liveweight although they're obviously far larger than the in-calf heifers weighed at 350 - 400 kg. Yes, I know the calf and a bit of fat cover on the bones makes a difference, but surely not that much - that's 25% less than what they should weigh in theory.

That's one reason why I'd like to have an on-farm set of scales. Till then, I have to simply trust that the weights I'm paid for are accurate - and simple logic suggests that's unlikely.

Isn't their any place you can drive over a scale on your way to the sale barn

 

[kenny thomas]

I have been quiet on this topic so far but my family owns a salebarn and don't make blanket statements about them all. Yes I know some that might not be honest but all salebarn scales in the US are required by P & S to be inspected and certified yearly. In Virginia the state also requires that they are inspected more often than P & S. Here that is every 6 months.
Some of you talk about weight loss when delivering a day before the sale. Of course there will be a lot more loss. You are changing their water, their hay, their feed, their home. I have seen a 10% loss from one day until the next with unweaned calves. Have seen 100lb per cow and more with a bull. Hot weather makes it a lot worse.
Again I know there are a few that might not be honest just don't think they all are. If they were they would not have be a salebarn left in business.

 

[regolith]

Isn't their any place you can drive over a scale on your way to the sale barn

No. These cows aren't going to a sale barn, they're going direct to the meat works, and collected by a truck arranged by the meat works, with other stock on board. Their scales are checked by MAF, I think (ministry of agriculture and fisheries - or is that food?)

I think one point that has been missed on this thread - is that the original poster is dairying and had sent cull dairy cows. There is simply no way someone who is managing a dairy herd, possibly milking two or three times a day, can take the time out to transport their cows long distance and then sit and watch them sell. I've done it once, in the quiet season when my boss' cows went to a saleyards twenty minutes away.
I've also seen stock agents at a sale yards on their cellphone while animals were being auctioned, determining with the owner whether the individual was sold or 'no sale'. For myself, I thought setting a reserve price (for good cows, not culls) pre-sale was enough protection, but it appears the agent concerned was prepared to ignore that.

It's true that when you're in the buying and selling cattle business - one bad deal is enough. If I think I'm getting a bad deal I take my business elsewhere, as long as there is opportunity to do so (though most of the time I've let a pattern of 2 or 3 incidences establish before walking). What worries me is that there are probably businesses out there who can survive on shoddy deals with new people every time...
Sorry, I'm talking a lot more in general now, not just cattle selling. Garages are a big risk, to me; I've known one or two who appeared to be sabotaging the vehicles.

 

[inbredredneck]

inbredredneck - my meat buyer has assured me the scales are accurate and, as you show here, checked by the higher ups.

But it's really hard to *not* wonder when the largest cow in my herd - who showed over 600 kg on the weighband - is weighed at just over 400 kg at the meat works. And every year I have mature cull Jersey cows weighed at less than 300 kg liveweight although they're obviously far larger than the in-calf heifers weighed at 350 - 400 kg. Yes, I know the calf and a bit of fat cover on the bones makes a difference, but surely not that much - that's 25% less than what they should weigh in theory.

That's one reason why I'd like to have an on-farm set of scales. Till then, I have to simply trust that the weights I'm paid for are accurate - and simple logic suggests that's unlikely.

66% dont sounds so far out of line.

 

[Bobaroni]

I really kind of think that it would not be in the auction barns best interest to have uncertified or scales that have been so to speak "tampered with". In Texas the Department of Agriculture is given the task of maintaing standards set forth by the Dept. of weights and measures. The penalty is like up to 10 grand per occurrence and I think that would mean every head sold under the malicious weight of an altered scale or misrepresented weight. I just don't see a sale barn willing to take that chance but hey I guess I've seen stranger things.

 

[regolith]

You really think a drop in weight of 25 - 35% between leaving the farm and being weighed at the destination is likely? Could you elaborate on the causes?

 

[dun]

You really think a drop in weight of 25 - 35% between leaving the farm and being weighed at the destination is likely? Could you elaborate on the causes?

I find it more likely that your eyeball weight guess isn't all that accurate. The only way to really know is an actual scale weight at each end of the trip.

 

[Amo]

We have a salebarn 5 miles away from the cattle, animals lose 10% body weight taken there and only 3-4% hauled to a salebarn 75 miles away?
Valerie

Thats what I wonder are the weights accurate, do they have a check up system by someone to see if their scales are working properly etc?? I odn't know I'm turned OFF by salebarns right now-I won't be going to any-anytime soon-

Ive got a good friend that sells his calves a long ways from home. He has several times loaded at home, weighed after 30 miles, and then weighed where they were delivered to about 70 miles. All the shrink happens within that first 30 miles. He says the weights don't change on the second time around. They also load out the morning of the sale.

 

[regolith]

Well, that's possible Dun, and in the bright starry future I'll own a set of scales and monitor the actual weights of my cows.

Still, logic doesn't add up.

 

[dun]

Well, that's possible Dun, and in the bright starry future I'll own a set of scales and monitor the actual weights of my cows.

Still, logic doesn't add up.

We're back to if you don;t know tha starting weight how can you really (in all honesty) feel that you're losing those percentages?

 

[regolith]

I did post my measures of assessing the starting weight: weigh tape round heart girth on that large Friesian cow, and another xbred that went recently but I don't recall what her slaughter weights were, I know none of that particular group were anywhere near the 580 kg I'd 'weighed' her at. And giving those heifers a quizzical look because the smallest of my Jerseys are weighed around 1 May each year at 350, the larger ones closer to 400. An extra condition score + calf might account for 10 % of that weight, meaning skinny heifer without calf would be closer to 300. Mature cow standing next to heifer (the sort that is weighed less than 300 at the works) is much taller and bulkier. They develop a lot of capacity up to four or five years old.
And then there's standard weights used in the industry for those breeds - and my cows are not small examples of the breed.

I've heard it said that cows can lose a full conditon score owing to dehydration after a long truck journey - but I have watched my cows leave trucks after five or six hour journeys, and they look as fit as they did when they got on.

Anyway, inbredredneck thinks 34% weight loss is quite within the realms of possibility. I'd like to know why - maybe my cows really are 30% rumen?

 

[inbredredneck]

Anyway, inbredredneck thinks 34% weight loss is quite within the realms of possibility. I'd like to know why - maybe my cows really are 30% rumen?

Yous railed 66% of yous weight tapes. Nows you weight tapes might have beens a bit lights whos knows. 66% nothins to sneeze at.

 

[whitewing]

You really think a drop in weight of 25 - 35% between leaving the farm and being weighed at the destination is likely? Could you elaborate on the causes?

I find it more likely that your eyeball weight guess isn't all that accurate. The only way to really know is an actual scale weight at each end of the trip.

I know I've found that when I'm buying, my estimate of weight usually is lower than the seller's estimate. When I'm selling, for some odd reason, my estimate of weight usually seems to be higher than the buyer's.

Not sure what's up with that.

 

[traks]

Obviously alot of incorrect information flying around on here so I thought I would shed some light.

Lets talk about how barns scales are regulated. Barns are required to have their scales cert. twice a year, once by the state and once from another company at certain intervals. Also every barn should be balancing every 30-45 minutes depending on how many cattle have ran across the scale in that time period.

lets move onto shrink, VERY FEW people really understand shrink and some ranchers get it and most dont. The amount of shrink in cattle can depend on the weather, feed, shipping, handling, age of cattle, kind of cattle, stress, sickness, lameness and the list goes on. There are many things you can do from the ranch before you ship to the saleyard that greatly improve the weighup on your cattle. I would elaborate if you like?

The infamous my 600lb steer didnt bring as much as bobs 600lbs steers. Factors such as kind, age, fill, sort can all play a role. How many times have you seen full cattle top the market? It does happen if they are reputation kind but by in large the highest selling calves were the right kind with a tremenous weigh up, true? Point being bobs steers were really 650 lb steers and the buyers could seee tremensous compencatory gain and reacted to it by giving the world for them. Bingo everyone is fooled.......except the buyers.

Bottom line is sale yards create a market. How would common rancher know how much his cattle are worth without cattle auctions?(unless he studied the futures alot) Video sales are great for load lots but what about Joe blow with 50-100 head?

I am a marketing manager for a large barn and sort and market tens of thousands of head every year and I can tell you that no year is the same, no conditions are the same and trying to nail this topic to the wall is impossible.


There is nobody to small for a barn to worry about so if you are not satisfied with your current barn get on the phone and find someone that will work for your business. I promise you that good barns are more prevelant than bad ones.

Just to make some of you feel better more weight will always pay more than high price with tremendous shrink.

A 650 Steer with a fair weigh up that brings 1.40= $910
That same steer that weighs 600 and brings 1.47 only brought $882
Your 600lb steers are next and have a good weigh up bring 1.44 or $864
You filled the crud out of your steers off of soft grass before you hauled them to the barn and the weighed 630 and brought 1.39 or $875 a head.

Lastly the buyers can tell what the cattle have been fed depending on the time of year and crop available, hay fed cattle will almost ALWAYS bring more than cattle already fed concentrates. So if you are selling at a barn and think fattening your steers for sale is a good idea with corn and you are disappointed with your price its because you took alot of good out of that animal and the buyer could tell.

It takes more training than you think especially when buyers only have seconds to decide and size up the cattle and when big groups come in its even tougher.

 

[TexasBred]

Having scales inspected and certified twice a year is like having a watch that doesn't run..... it has the correct time twice a day. ;-)