Did CAB open a can of Worms

[dcara]

CAB's new requirements allow for a genotype qualification where the calf only has to be traceable to one registered parent. Don't regestered BA's occasionally throw reds (due maybe to that forbidden evil red gene)? If so, then wouldn't the 51% black hide rule be out the window?

Link to USDA CAB requirements
http://www.ams.usda.gov/LSG/certprog/Sc ... ed-GLA.htm

 

[Frankie]

CAB's new requirements allow for a genotype qualification where the calf only has to be traceable to one registered parent. Don't regestered BA's occasionally throw reds (due maybe to that forbidden evil red gene)? If so, then wouldn't the 51% black hide rule be out the window?

Link to USDA CAB requirements
http://www.ams.usda.gov/LSG/certprog/Sc ... ed-GLA.htm

They've always had that rule, it's just not been used very much, if at all. Most of the cattle come through the packing house from unknown sources and the black hide is the first qualifer.

 

[Brandonm2]

Those are two different rules:

Too visually approve a calf as Angus the hide has too be 51% or more Black (your typical Herf/Ang black baldie is about 65% black hided) so is a rule big enough too drive just about any beef looking black calf through.

Too source verify a calf as Angus, you only have too claim that ONE parent was a registered Angus (there are a lot of 98% Angus that only have one registered Angus parent) or be able too document that the calf has two registered Angus grandparents.

 

[Frankie]

Right. But it's not a new rule. If you look at the top right of dcara's link, you'll see the rules she referenced were approved on November 6, 1996. And went into effect on January 1, 1997.

Now if you look at Schedule G-1 for CAB, it's been revised as of January 8, 2007.

G-1 link:
http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/certprog/sc ... usBeef.pdf

 

[MikeC]

These new rules show us how far we've stepped backwards.

A carcass of 975 lbs. with a 13" ribeye and 1" of backfat would be equivalent to a:

YIELD GRADE 5! :roll: :roll:

CAB must have been getting desparate to supply the market from the huge "Angus" influence of today. :roll:

 

[Frankie]

Let the Angus bashing begin. MikeC has arrived.

Too bad that's all he has to offer the board.

 

[MikeC]

Let the Angus bashing begin. MikeC has arrived.

Too bad that's all he has to offer the board.

Are you proud of the fact that beef/cattle quality has declined significantly in recent years?

Sure looks like it........................................

 

[Dusty]

Mike C is not the only one, ANGUS has the best promotions, best data center and most members,,, This making the world think they are the best breed!

My angus cattle, all from Gardiners and Fink Beef ranked 3rd as a breed overall this year when the purebred steers and heifers were slaughtered! 34 head.. 3rd out of 3 !! They are not the best beef out there and when people figure out that it takes crossing them up to max profits the world will be a better place.

Guess what, to make a pen of cattle CAB Available, it only takes on black hided animal in 7 head for a pen to attempt to be CAB in the Ks and Neb packing plants... One Animal... Can you tell me which animal is Black hided and which one is not when they are on the rail ??

 

[dcara]

Ok then. So source verification allows for any color provided the calf meets the parentage requirement?

Frankie - I beleie I would prefer you use the male gender pronoun in future references to me. Which should I use for you?

 

[alabama]

So were the rulls for CAB changed?

BTW I know that Mike has some Angus cattle.

 

[MikeC]

So were the rulls for CAB changed?

BTW I know that Mike has some Angus cattle.

Yes they were.

I don't have a problem with angus cattle. It's the fraud that CAB is perpetuating that burns my cheeks.

 

[alabama]

It's the fraud that CAB is perpetuating that burns my cheeks.

That must be some fire. I bet it is nice in the winter though.

 

[ga. prime]

I have a hard time understanding the argument here. Have any of you been to a stockyard sale? Seen what brings in the most $/lb.? Some of you should become saleyard buyers and start a revolution.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

I have a hard time understanding the argument here. Have any of you been to a stockyard sale? Seen what brings in the most $/lb.? Some of you should become saleyard buyers and start a revolution.

ga. prime and all who might be interested-

I have read this seemingly never-ending diatribe among members of the Forum, and have realized that the under-lying causes which perpetuate this hostility is a combination of Pride, Income, and Ego!

Now comes - American Angus Association! Because of the Dominant, Homozygous Black color of hide and hair, The Breeder's and Association Members capitalized on their good fortune, and by virtue of excellent Public Relations and Advertising, convinced the Meat-buying public of the World that "Black was Beautiful!", and, believing their own publicity, promotion, and literature, like Hamlet - became "Hoist on Their Own Petard"! Other Breeds recognized that THEY must get "Black" also in order to compete, and the race was on!!

The "Meat-Buying-Public", in the meantime, not being privy to the political ins-and-outs of the 'beef-producing' inner sanctum, fell into the trap of thinking that the "HIDE and HAIR" color was what made Beef juicy and tender. Educating and altering the thinking of the public is paramount in the promotion of a product instead of a Color. In spite of what some may perceive as reality, an enjoyable eating experience is comprised of factors OTHER than black color!

The "NEW" so-called requirements established by CAB is, IN MY OPINION, a sham - inasmuch as many breeds of Cattle OTHER than Angus can possess a high percentage of homozygous "Black" hide color genes, as well as displaying excellent Marbling and Ribeye readings and Juiciness and Tenderness factors - in spite of, supposedly, not qualifying for CAB.

SO! Certified Angus Beef may be struggling to maintain their "King of the Hill" status, but while some Black Angus Breeder's have been riding the crest of popularity and ignoring the dictates of producing OPTIMAL BEEF GENETICS AND PHENOTYPE, other breeds have improved their quality of IMPORTANT RETAIL market characteristics, and are snapping at the heels of the Black Angus Breed! Like it or not - those are the facts Ma'm, and the Beef Purchasing Public are the benefactors!

DOC HARRIS

 

[memanpa]

as usuall DOC hits the nail on the head.

 

[Brandonm2]

Facts: The new specs are reported to toss almost 7% of the animals that would have been accepted under the old system. Less external fat will be accepted, AngusSource will be directly tied into the program (source verified) and only about 8% of the meat will make the grade.

This is important: Why the changes at all? Because the 2005/2006 Beef Audit call for more consistency in quality, more marbling and source verification. The new CAB specs are intended to respond to the wishes of those who buy and sell beef who are, in turn, responding to the wishes of the consumers.

While, Guests nonsense is grating, too claim that adding YG 4s too the CAB ranks was done too decrease external fat is nonsensical. They want more product (particularly Prime and high choice product) and are willing too accept 100 lbs plus of waste on the kill floor too get it.

 

[1848]

Most of the cattle come through the packing house from unknown sources and the black hide is the first qualifer.

Hallelujah!

"I saw the light.............I was Baptized.....

...by the fire in your touch.......and the flame in your eyes!

I'm born to "black" again....

I'm a brand new cattleman!


:lol: :lol: :shock:

 

[1848]

Let the Angus bashing begin.

Well sweetheart,

When you throw a bone amongst the dogs....... ;-)

 

[Frankie]

I have read this seemingly never-ending diatribe among members of the Forum, and have realized that the under-lying causes which perpetuate this hostility is a combination of Pride, Income, and Ego!

My underlying cause is to stop people from misrepresenting CAB and the Angus breed. If I never posted again I doubt it would hurt the price we get for bulls or the sales of CAB. If one honestly browses these boards, they'll see less bashing by Angus breeders than any other. Mike and his good pal 25 are the prime bashers on the board. Instead of promoting the good qualities of their breed, breeders of other cattle jump on Angus when they see an opportunity.

Now comes - American Angus Association! Because of the Dominant, Homozygous Black color of hide and hair, The Breeder's and Association Members capitalized on their good fortune, and by virtue of excellent Public Relations and Advertising, convinced the Meat-buying public of the World that "Black was Beautiful!", and, believing their own publicity, promotion, and literature, like Hamlet - became "Hoist on Their Own Petard"! Other Breeds recognized that THEY must get "Black" also in order to compete, and the race was on!!

Your usual rant. Do you have ANYTHING to back it up? First: the Angus Association did NOT "capitalize on their good fortune" and neither did I. We've earned our spot on top by hard work and due diligence. How many other breeds report the number of BW, WW, etc. as Angus breeders? How many other breeds spent their own money (when they didn't have much) on starting a line of branded beef that I believe helped bring consumers back to beef? How many other breeds pushed EPDs when many commercial cattlemen were rolling their eyes at the very idea that you could improve BW, WW, etc., with EPDs? Other breeds made the choice to turn their cattle into Angus. The people running the Angus Assn are very smart. But I doubt in their wildest dreams they expected Simmental, Limousin, Salers, Maines.... to abandon their breed's heritages and copy Angus. If they did, my hat's off to them. But it blows my mind.

The "Meat-Buying-Public", in the meantime, not being privy to the political ins-and-outs of the 'beef-producing' inner sanctum, fell into the trap of thinking that the "HIDE and HAIR" color was what made Beef juicy and tender. Educating and altering the thinking of the public is paramount in the promotion of a product instead of a Color. In spite of what some may perceive as reality, an enjoyable eating experience is comprised of factors OTHER than black color!

:roll: I don't believe I've ever seen a black steak. Have you? The meat buying public is looking for a quality, CONSISTENT, product. They get that with CAB. That's why it's growing; that's why it's good. CAB isn't educating the public about color; they're educating them about what makes a quality steak eating experience. And that's CAB. Again: what other breed association took the initiative and risk to start a branded beef program with their own money (when they didn't have a lot of it)? Since you probably will ignore me, I'll answer the question: NO OTHER BREED.

The "NEW" so-called requirements established by CAB is, IN MY OPINION, a sham - inasmuch as many breeds of Cattle OTHER than Angus can possess a high percentage of homozygous "Black" hide color genes, as well as displaying excellent Marbling and Ribeye readings and Juiciness and Tenderness factors - in spite of, supposedly, not qualifying for CAB.

I won't go into what I think of most of the opinions you post on this board. Everyone's got one.

SO! Certified Angus Beef may be struggling to maintain their "King of the Hill" status, but while some Black Angus Breeder's have been riding the crest of popularity and ignoring the dictates of producing OPTIMAL BEEF GENETICS AND PHENOTYPE, other breeds have improved their quality of IMPORTANT RETAIL market characteristics, and are snapping at the heels of the Black Angus Breed! Like it or not - those are the facts Ma'm, and the Beef Purchasing Public are the benefactors!
DOC HARRIS

Are you guest25 in disguise? Your rants are starting to sound more and more like him.

Other breeds needed to improve their product. Look what happened to beef demand when the USDA lowered grading standards. That's when the Angus Assn started CAB. They believed consumers would pay extra for quality beef and that Angus beef was quality beef. They put their money on their breed and have been shown to be right. It took some years, but they're right. Angus needs to improve their product and we're working on it. I don't know where some people get the idea that Angus breeders are fat and happy, setting on top of the pile, twiddling their thumbs. Breeders submitted more AHIR data last year than ever before. More carcass data was collected than ever before. Almost half the Angus cattle registered were AI/ET. If you or anyone else thinks Angus will fall by the wayside because of complacency, you're wrong. Another breed may become become more popular, but they won't do it because Angus breeders stop working to improve the breed.

CAB outsells all other branded beef programs put together. Will they always? Maybe not. But would there even be other branded beef programs if the Angus Assn hadn't gone out with their own money, on their own initiative, and started CAB? Do they get any credit from that from you, DOC? The Angus cow is the backbone of the beef industry in the US. If you don't want to use an Angus bull, she'll work with just about any other breed. The Angus bull, on the other hand, will turn your calf crop black and polled. I see other black breeds sell. A homo polled black Limi bull will far outsell a red horned Limi. I've never seen Salers sell except black and polled so I don't have anything to compare to. Just getting the horns off most of the nation's cow herd is something the Angus Association should be credited with! But you and your show ring mind set just can't get away from the fact the few you see don't look like you want them too.

 

[Frankie]

Mike C is not the only one, ANGUS has the best promotions, best data center and most members,,, This making the world think they are the best breed!

They are the best breed for me. Everyone has to decide for themselves if they're the best breed for them.

My angus cattle, all from Gardiners and Fink Beef ranked 3rd as a breed overall this year when the purebred steers and heifers were slaughtered! 34 head.. 3rd out of 3 !! They are not the best beef out there and when people figure out that it takes crossing them up to max profits the world will be a better place.

So what beat them and why? Were they too fat? Not enough marbling? Too big? Too little? Did they not gain efficiently? Coming in third gives you a lot of room to improve. Get with it.

Guess what, to make a pen of cattle CAB Available, it only takes on black hided animal in 7 head for a pen to attempt to be CAB in the Ks and Neb packing plants... One Animal... Can you tell me which animal is Black hided and which one is not when they are on the rail ??

:roll: A PEN doesn't qualify for CAB. When the individual animal is dead and coming down the line, if it meets the 51% black, no dairy, it goes down a CAB inspection line. After the skin comes off, if it qualifies, it's stamped CAB. At least that's how EXCEL ran their plant in Dodge City several years ago. Stamping something CAB that doesn't meet the visual qualifications can be very costly to the packer.