Dang heifer!

tncattle

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City & State/Province
Tennessee
The owner of the farm where I have cattle lost a massive calf this morning. Of course it was a heifer with her first calf. We pulled it and it didn't make it. It was a heifer calf that was at least 100 lbs.! The bull she was bred to has consistently thrown small calves so she's hitting the road as soon as she heals up.
I will not calve heifers of my own, just not worth it to me. If I'm going to calve cows I try to buy the best cows I can find that have had already had 1 or 2 calves with no problems. Usually pay a little more but it's worth it to me.
 
tncattle":1u7r5og4 said:
I will not calve heifers of my own, just not worth it to me. If I'm going to calve cows I try to buy the best cows I can find that have had already had 1 or 2 calves with no problems. Usually pay a little more but it's worth it to me.

While I agree with this philosophically, my problems the last couple of years have been ALL cows. Breach, backwards, twins, not moving into birth canal for unknown reasons, etc. All assignable causes that could happen to heifers too, but that's not the way it's working out for me!
 
tncattle":1kj7skiw said:
Supa Dexta":1kj7skiw said:
Pretty normal for me to calve em at that size. Just used to it I guess.
Glad it works for you but it didn't for this particular heifer.
I would like to see a typical heifer calving out a 80lbs calf, not a freaky 100lbs heifer calf. To be honest I'd rather calving out cows than heifers. Heifers are so unpredictable more than cows. It's true you can have problems with the cows but you would know they're already proven mothers.
 
That is especially large for September in a year where it has been mid to upper 90's all summer. Usually the type of heat we have had in the south this year will hold down calf weights.
 
Do I remember someone saying "two years old is too young to have a calf"? Wonder who that was?

Does anyone measure pelvic area before selecting replacement heifers?
How much attention is given to the calving history of dam and gds? Seems to me that there is a lot more to calving ease than birth weight and a negative EPD. A breeder I know well pointed out that with smaller birth weights may come smaller pelvic areas. Heard another breeder on YouTube express his fear of shorter gestation periods leading to premature births. Claimed it had happen to him! I'm not sure he could make a positive correlation but he was convinced.
 
At around 27 months, sutures of pelvic bones fuse/ossify.
So... if you can get that heifer bred to calve before 27 months, there's a little extra 'wiggle room' available to allow a calf to pass through the birth canal...
And while I am a man, and have no concrete proof, I've had women who experienced a vaginal birth tell me that 'things never go back to what they were before'... kinda 'spreads 'em out' a bit.
 
Lucky_P":1j3vjtgo said:
At around 27 months, sutures of pelvic bones fuse/ossify.
So... if you can get that heifer bred to calve before 27 months, there's a little extra 'wiggle room' available to allow a calf to pass through the birth canal...
And while I am a man, and have no concrete proof, I've had women who experienced a vaginal birth tell me that 'things never go back to what they were before'... kinda 'spreads 'em out' a bit.

Coulda gone all day without reading that Lucky, lol.
 
City Guy":3td8fejm said:
Do I remember someone saying "two years old is too young to have a calf"? Wonder who that was?

Does anyone measure pelvic area before selecting replacement heifers?
How much attention is given to the calving history of dam and gds? Seems to me that there is a lot more to calving ease than birth weight and a negative EPD. A breeder I know well pointed out that with smaller birth weights may come smaller pelvic areas. Heard another breeder on YouTube express his fear of shorter gestation periods leading to premature births. Claimed it had happen to him! I'm not sure he could make a positive correlation but he was convinced.

Two years is ideal. We raise & retain our own heifers so I know their history. They are all pelvic measured & bred to a low birth weight, calving ease bull. And still, bad things can happen.

Smaller birth weights do not necessarily correlate to smaller pelvic areas. Two of my cows were 40 lb preemies. One had her 4th calf this year & the other had her first, both full term & healthy bull calves. BTW both of their mamas had hardware, which is most likely why they were preemies.
 
My opinion on this heifer is, if she's a good specimen and you got a 100 pound calf out of her and she was able to walk away, i'd keep her. Sure, you can take a hit and sell her as a open..then buy a bred heifer to replace her. But, you arent guaranteed that you'll get a live calf out of a different heifer. Any heifer we have to pull a calf out of that is huge and we get it out live or dead and she stands up afterwards, we keep her. Chances are she'll never need a calf pulled the rest of her life... But thats just me..
 
It happens, that is for sure. I think there is more to the cow contributing to the weight than what people report. I have had a heifer, bred to the top calving ease sire, throw a monster and almost not get up and move again from the experience. His EPD's were 98% accurate, so he had plenty of data behind him to prove he was calving ease. It had to come from her side (we bought her as a heavy bred). Shape of the calf is so important too! More so than weight...
Heifers can have big calves, but it is not advised. Our first heifer of the season calved the other day, 83 pound heifer calf. That is a little bigger than I like, but there were no complications and we have a live calf on the ground. Mission accomplished...
Sorry to hear about your bad luck. If I had room, I would keep her and try again. Price of cows is so low, it does not pay to sell her right now.
 
cowgirl8":37a3vvr0 said:
My opinion on this heifer is, if she's a good specimen and you got a 100 pound calf out of her and she was able to walk away, i'd keep her. Sure, you can take a hit and sell her as a open..then buy a bred heifer to replace her. But, you arent guaranteed that you'll get a live calf out of a different heifer. Any heifer we have to pull a calf out of that is huge and we get it out live or dead and she stands up afterwards, we keep her. Chances are she'll never need a calf pulled the rest of her life... But thats just me..
I agree with you. I've pulled huge calves out of heifers and they do unassisted next year without any issues.
 
City Guy":jfodpqw4 said:
Do I remember someone saying "two years old is too young to have a calf"? Wonder who that was?

So one trouble heifer proves your point?

Did you see my email that I have been having more problems with cows than two year old heifers? What does that prove? I think that proves we need to kill all our cows after they calve at 2 years.
 
Interesting on the weight debate. We have had heifers have some pretty big calves but not too often. Calve 10 to 20 new heifers every year, sometimes more sometimes less. We don't do pelvic measurements although it might be a good idea. Mostly we keep heifers out of the best producing cows, the ones that breed back every year, stay around forever, wean a good calf and are easy keepers. Also, DISPOSITION is a big thing to me. Gotta be good mothers without wanting to "get me". I am not their enemy and since I don't move as fast as when I was 30, don't want a cow to go nuts just cuz I am tagging her new calf. We use easy calving bulls on the heifers and mostly get smaller, 60-70 lb calves. When we do have trouble it seems to be more in cows and mostly breech birth. Maybe 1 or 2 at most. Have had to pull most breech that we see, but who knows who had a breech that just had it and we didn't see. Since we are commercial, cows that don't cut the mustard don't stay. We have bought some bred heifers over the years, and for us that is just headaches. Finally convinced my son that we are not buying heifers no matter how cheap. Raise our own, know the background and be a lot better off. We do buy and sell some cows, and have kept some nice heifers out of some of them. I like to calve my heifers in the 27-30 month range. Maybe a little old for some people, but we seem to have alot less calving problems, and they tend to know what to do a little better and come into their milk. We do very little supplemental feeding, want them to be grass cattle. This works for us, may not be what is best for anyone else.

Since I calve out the heifers, and check twice a day at least, I want to go find a calf on the ground, not the heifer on the ground with a problem. Because we rent many places, they are accustomed to getting on and off the trailer and being handled and around people, so are maybe a little more quiet than some places that don't do alot of groundwork with their animals. I don't even know how to start &drive the 4wheeler...use my old little ranger pu to check cows, and they are in fields that aren't too big, 5-10 acres; get them calved and move out to pastures. And when they go off to calve, I take a bucket of grain with me, as they are all trained to come in for grain so we can pen them to move them, and give momma a little grain on the ground as I am working with her calf. Usually get it done before any of the others figure out there's grain and the new mom takes the calf off a little and just looks at me like that's enough leave us alone. We spend alot of time on foot in the pastures with the heifers growing up and they do get supplemented with grain when growing so they are used to people in and around them. I talk to them alot so they are accustomed to my voice too. Seems some years it's the luck of the draw for problems...
 
farmerjan":1dm06clg said:
Interesting on the weight debate. We have had heifers have some pretty big calves but not too often. Calve 10 to 20 new heifers every year, sometimes more sometimes less. We don't do pelvic measurements although it might be a good idea. Mostly we keep heifers out of the best producing cows, the ones that breed back every year, stay around forever, wean a good calf and are easy keepers... ...Since we are commercial, cows that don't cut the mustard don't stay. We have bought some bred heifers over the years, and for us that is just headaches. Finally convinced my son that we are not buying heifers no matter how cheap. Raise our own, know the background and be a lot better off. We do buy and sell some cows, and have kept some nice heifers out of some of them. I like to calve my heifers in the 27-30 month range. Maybe a little old for some people, but we seem to have alot less calving problems, and they tend to know what to do a little better and come into their milk. We do very little supplemental feeding, want them to be grass cattle.

In order to calve out heifers at 27-30 months, do you have a fall and spring crop...using spring-born heifers for fall calving and vice-versa; or do you calve all year round? Just curious of how this works for most people calving heifers at other than 2 years of age.
 
angus9259 One troubled heifer doesn't prove anything, you're correct. And neither does trouble with a few cows. My comment was snarky. I apologize.
But I can't help but wonder, with all that has been done over the years with smaller BW, shorter gestation, better nutrition pelvic measurements, and EPD evaluations etc. why is calving still such a problem?
 
kdhansen,
We do have both spring and fall calving seasons... and will, on occasion, roll a yearling heifer that didn't breed with her contemporaries at 14-15 months to the next season, to breed at 18 months. If she doesn't stick then, she's taking a ride to town.
Likewise, we'll also occasionally let a good 1st-calf heifer that doesn't breed back on her inaugural outing roll to the next season, especially if she's doing a great job with her calf, and just 'milked down' a bit too much.

Some will say that we're 'making excuses' for too many... but... I like 'em, I'm breeding what I want, and I'm not dependent upon income from them to survive.
 
City Guy":16pgx3bp said:
angus9259 One troubled heifer doesn't prove anything, you're correct. And neither does trouble with a few cows. My comment was snarky. I apologize.
But I can't help but wonder, with all that has been done over the years with smaller BW, shorter gestation, better nutrition pelvic measurements, and EPD evaluations etc. why is calving still such a problem?


Because. Just because. Some cows inherently produce larger calves - something you don't necessarily know, even based on the dams history when selecting replacement heifers. Some calves are breech or mal-placed, which can usually be corrected IF you're watching & timing the labor & check things out if it's taking too long or something just doesn't seem right. Some calves just aren't meant to be - Mother Nature can be cruel. The umbilical cord can become detached. Some cows/heifers prolapse. Some times there's an underlying health issue that is not apparent (hardware, lymphosarcoma/cancer, etc). Regardless of how many precautions we take there is simply no guarantee.
 

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