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Crossbreeding - AGAIN!
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<blockquote data-quote="DOC HARRIS" data-source="post: 359265" data-attributes="member: 1683"><p>ga. prime -</p><p></p><p>As with EVERY selection of seedstock, you can (and SHOULD ) consider EVERY factor of the Genotype and Phenotype for which you are considering - and ALL of the EPD's and functional body structure traits relating to either Maternal or Terminal goals for which you are striving! That being said, and knowing that you are focusing on Terminal ONLY and not maternal retention - this narrows the choices a little, HOWEVER - heifers can be retained from ANY high quality program if they are geared to the overall goals which you have in mind.</p><p></p><p>Disclaimer: Having never been involved with Brahma-type cattle, I have no first hand experience to which to relate, therefore I won't attempt to give an opinion of something with which I have had no personal contact. Brahma, Tiger Stripes, 'Rain-draining' ears, and heat and insect tolerance are not only desirable in a Southern U.S. program, but for a profitable operation - absolutely NECESSARY! You are probably more familiar and acquainted with those traits and how they perform in your area than I would be.</p><p></p><p>The primary purpose of crossbreeding is to provide advantageous traits from two sources - Heterosis (Hybrid Vigor) and Complimentarity (capitalizing on blending the desirable characteristics from different breeds and combining them into one crossbred animal). As I continue to Holler, and Yell and Shout and Jump up and down and Scream about ALL BREEDING INDIVIDUALS being better than they can possibly be - I am hopeful that my philosophy about HIGH QUALITY seedstock penetrates all of the subconscious minds of all who read or hear me! High Quality pertains to Purebred Herds, Crossbred herds, Mediocre Herds, Crummy Herds, Lousy Herds, and Herds that should not even be a Herd. Every Herd should strive to be improved EVERY TIME they acquire a new Bull or a new Female! EVERY SINGLE TIME!! Regardless of the breed or combination of breeds!</p><p></p><p>With that thought off my chest - I will express a few suggestions regarding your question(S)!</p><p></p><p>EVERY crossbred breeding animal should have Angus (Black or Red) in their pedigree! The important "Moderate to High Heritability" traits are found in these two breeds in abundance. Some of them are: Milk production, Post-weaning Daily gain, post-weaning daily feed consumption, Final Feedlot weight, Yearling Weight, Ribeye area, Fat thickness, Marbling score, and Tenderness score. "Moderate" Heritability traits are important also. Some of those are: Weaning confirmation score, post-weaning daily gain on pasture, feed conversion, Slaughter confirmation, Dresssing percentage, and percentage of retail product. Other breeds have these traits in their genetic transmissible characteristics, also, and that is why crossbreeding is able to combine the higher heritable characteristics in a Complimentarity manner and combine that with Hybrid Vigor!</p><p></p><p>After solidifying the above mentioned traits, the next considerations MUST include Growth and Carcass traits for bull selection, and NO considerations for maternal traits,</p><p>as you are retaining nothing - as per your criteria. Therefore, my recommendations specify a <strong>THREE-BREED CROSS</strong> encompassing Black or Red Angus X Gelbvieh Females bred to either Registered Charolais or Simmental Bulls (Continental Breeds). As you will be a Composite "USER" (Commercial producer), it is important to use registered (Purebred) Bulls of whatever breed you decide upon in order to maintain high Heterosis traits throughout the continuing Rotational system. My reasons for having Gelbvieh in the female mix is because that breed is closer to being genetically similar to Angus than some of the larger frame Terminal (Continental) breeds such as Charolais, Simmental, Maine-Anjou, and Limousin. My focus is to attempt to keep our mature cow weight down to around 1250#, and Gelbvieh is optimal for that trait among the Continental breeds.</p><p></p><p>Not to disparage Herefords or Shorthorns, they can also be used in the British female cross combination, but I prefer the Angus option for the Marbling and Calving Ease traits, but you specified ". . .from birth to weaning", but we have to consider the characteristics past weaning for the maximum heterosis and growth extending into the feedlot from the Terminal point of view.</p><p></p><p>Even if you were to expand your operation to the point of developing and using Composite Bulls as breeders in your crossbreeding system, using Purebred original seedstock to develop this line would be absolutely imperative to continue to elevate your Heterosis percentage levels. </p><p></p><p>The judicious use of Artificial Insemination or Embryo Transfer can accelerate the process and enable one to utilize the BEST BULLS available, which should be mandatory. If you plan to retain any of the cross bred heifers, the use of the BEST BULLS available should be a LAW! If you don't use the best genetics throughout, you are losing heterosis and spinning your wheels! </p><p></p><p>This type of three-breed crossbreeding planning should be used with herds of 150 - 200 brood cows or less and significant pasture or range, as any larger programs will result in very complicated pasture rotation and management protocols. Increased in-breeding complications if replacements are retained can be alleviated by the maintaining of a large cow herd (500 cows or more) - more management decisions. Even with your smaller Three-Breed operation, I would recommend that you change your seedstock within the composite formula that you decide to use if you are pleased with the results.</p><p></p><p>Assuming that you are not keeping heifers back from this mating system, you can use different Terminal bulls if you so desire after observing the results of the first F1 crossings. Observing F1 results is a matter of KNOWING what you are seeking, and being able to literally hand-select your ideal crosses in the future!</p><p></p><p>ga-Prime, I am sure that you can easily see how the management of even as simple a program as this is can very quickly become a nightmare without proper advanced planning and thought.</p><p></p><p>These are some of my thoughts regarding the possibilities of your "Heterosis and Growthiness From Birth to Weaning" crossbreeding undertaking. The CRITICAL factors to bear in mind throughout any breeding plan is that you must use HIGH quality seedstock, and follow a management plan which is compatible with your environment.</p><p></p><p>DOC HARRIS</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DOC HARRIS, post: 359265, member: 1683"] ga. prime - As with EVERY selection of seedstock, you can (and SHOULD ) consider EVERY factor of the Genotype and Phenotype for which you are considering - and ALL of the EPD's and functional body structure traits relating to either Maternal or Terminal goals for which you are striving! That being said, and knowing that you are focusing on Terminal ONLY and not maternal retention - this narrows the choices a little, HOWEVER - heifers can be retained from ANY high quality program if they are geared to the overall goals which you have in mind. Disclaimer: Having never been involved with Brahma-type cattle, I have no first hand experience to which to relate, therefore I won't attempt to give an opinion of something with which I have had no personal contact. Brahma, Tiger Stripes, 'Rain-draining' ears, and heat and insect tolerance are not only desirable in a Southern U.S. program, but for a profitable operation - absolutely NECESSARY! You are probably more familiar and acquainted with those traits and how they perform in your area than I would be. The primary purpose of crossbreeding is to provide advantageous traits from two sources - Heterosis (Hybrid Vigor) and Complimentarity (capitalizing on blending the desirable characteristics from different breeds and combining them into one crossbred animal). As I continue to Holler, and Yell and Shout and Jump up and down and Scream about ALL BREEDING INDIVIDUALS being better than they can possibly be - I am hopeful that my philosophy about HIGH QUALITY seedstock penetrates all of the subconscious minds of all who read or hear me! High Quality pertains to Purebred Herds, Crossbred herds, Mediocre Herds, Crummy Herds, Lousy Herds, and Herds that should not even be a Herd. Every Herd should strive to be improved EVERY TIME they acquire a new Bull or a new Female! EVERY SINGLE TIME!! Regardless of the breed or combination of breeds! With that thought off my chest - I will express a few suggestions regarding your question(S)! EVERY crossbred breeding animal should have Angus (Black or Red) in their pedigree! The important "Moderate to High Heritability" traits are found in these two breeds in abundance. Some of them are: Milk production, Post-weaning Daily gain, post-weaning daily feed consumption, Final Feedlot weight, Yearling Weight, Ribeye area, Fat thickness, Marbling score, and Tenderness score. "Moderate" Heritability traits are important also. Some of those are: Weaning confirmation score, post-weaning daily gain on pasture, feed conversion, Slaughter confirmation, Dresssing percentage, and percentage of retail product. Other breeds have these traits in their genetic transmissible characteristics, also, and that is why crossbreeding is able to combine the higher heritable characteristics in a Complimentarity manner and combine that with Hybrid Vigor! After solidifying the above mentioned traits, the next considerations MUST include Growth and Carcass traits for bull selection, and NO considerations for maternal traits, as you are retaining nothing - as per your criteria. Therefore, my recommendations specify a [b]THREE-BREED CROSS[/b] encompassing Black or Red Angus X Gelbvieh Females bred to either Registered Charolais or Simmental Bulls (Continental Breeds). As you will be a Composite "USER" (Commercial producer), it is important to use registered (Purebred) Bulls of whatever breed you decide upon in order to maintain high Heterosis traits throughout the continuing Rotational system. My reasons for having Gelbvieh in the female mix is because that breed is closer to being genetically similar to Angus than some of the larger frame Terminal (Continental) breeds such as Charolais, Simmental, Maine-Anjou, and Limousin. My focus is to attempt to keep our mature cow weight down to around 1250#, and Gelbvieh is optimal for that trait among the Continental breeds. Not to disparage Herefords or Shorthorns, they can also be used in the British female cross combination, but I prefer the Angus option for the Marbling and Calving Ease traits, but you specified ". . .from birth to weaning", but we have to consider the characteristics past weaning for the maximum heterosis and growth extending into the feedlot from the Terminal point of view. Even if you were to expand your operation to the point of developing and using Composite Bulls as breeders in your crossbreeding system, using Purebred original seedstock to develop this line would be absolutely imperative to continue to elevate your Heterosis percentage levels. The judicious use of Artificial Insemination or Embryo Transfer can accelerate the process and enable one to utilize the BEST BULLS available, which should be mandatory. If you plan to retain any of the cross bred heifers, the use of the BEST BULLS available should be a LAW! If you don't use the best genetics throughout, you are losing heterosis and spinning your wheels! This type of three-breed crossbreeding planning should be used with herds of 150 - 200 brood cows or less and significant pasture or range, as any larger programs will result in very complicated pasture rotation and management protocols. Increased in-breeding complications if replacements are retained can be alleviated by the maintaining of a large cow herd (500 cows or more) - more management decisions. Even with your smaller Three-Breed operation, I would recommend that you change your seedstock within the composite formula that you decide to use if you are pleased with the results. Assuming that you are not keeping heifers back from this mating system, you can use different Terminal bulls if you so desire after observing the results of the first F1 crossings. Observing F1 results is a matter of KNOWING what you are seeking, and being able to literally hand-select your ideal crosses in the future! ga-Prime, I am sure that you can easily see how the management of even as simple a program as this is can very quickly become a nightmare without proper advanced planning and thought. These are some of my thoughts regarding the possibilities of your "Heterosis and Growthiness From Birth to Weaning" crossbreeding undertaking. The CRITICAL factors to bear in mind throughout any breeding plan is that you must use HIGH quality seedstock, and follow a management plan which is compatible with your environment. DOC HARRIS [/QUOTE]
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