CREDIBILITY

[skcatlman]

HM and Ot read flounders post maybe them you will realize that canada isn't the reason the are problems in the US beef industry. As far as OIE i know what i read and canada is classified negligable by the OIE, as is the US. Maybe you should look at the problems the US has and try to fix them instead of trying to claim they are caused by canada. So if the alabama cow and texas cow positive for bse strains not in the UK or canada how did they get it. Dr. brown ref. flounders last post BSE has been present is the US for the past 10 yrs. And not one positive what are the odds. A disease has been circulating and no positives in all that time was any testing ever done. That is what the world is thinking if only 2 positives were found in ten years,how many were missed and how many will be missed in the future no wonder why other countries don't want to import from you guys. At least Canada is honest and open when it comes to releasing data and letting the rest of the world examine what they want in cases of BSE pos. animal. We are working to eliminate BSE and have implemented a trace back system which can be use if another country imports an animal that tests positive.

 

[HAY MAKER]

HM and Ot read flounders post maybe them you will realize that canada isn't the reason the are problems in the US beef industry. As far as OIE i know what i read and canada is classified negligable by the OIE, as is the US. Maybe you should look at the problems the US has and try to fix them instead of trying to claim they are caused by canada. So if the alabama cow and texas cow positive for bse strains not in the UK or canada how did they get it. Dr. brown ref. flounders last post BSE has been present is the US for the past 10 yrs. And not one positive what are the odds. A disease has been circulating and no positives in all that time was any testing ever done. That is what the world is thinking if only 2 positives were found in ten years,how many were missed and how many will be missed in the future no wonder why other countries don't want to import from you guys. At least Canada is honest and open when it comes to releasing data and letting the rest of the world examine what they want in cases of BSE pos. animal. We are working to eliminate BSE and have implemented a trace back system which can be use if another country imports an animal that tests positive.

skatctlman,a little advice about this person that's called flounder,I doubt he knows which end of a cow quits the ground first,he is known to post arm long technical hypothetical BS on cattle men's talk forum's,most folks dont bother to read them.
Probably a tree hugger,or some kinda animal rights activist..................good luck

 

[skcatlman]

HM abit if imfo about flounder he is not an animal acitvist or nut, and he does serious research,he deals in supported proven facts, he lost a family member to vCJD in texas and wants to know how it was aquired if there is no BSE in texas. It appears the only way was from texas beef. From checking out his posts yes they are long but they are complete and supported by scientific data. All i can say is take the time to read what he is posting if you don't understand something just ask him. He is not a know it all or anti-beef guy but a concerned citizen who wants to get down to the truth. I believe he believes as i do all cattle over a certain age should be tested for BSE in the US and Canada. But i can't speak for him so ask him for yourself. If you want knowledge read his posts you will learn alot.

 

[mwj]

If you can not discredit what someone posts I guess the next step is to attack the person who makes the post :roll: He(flounder) quotes a lot of the sources that you say are going to change our risk standing in world trade. Should we discredit them as a bunch of tree huggers that do not have a clue about cattle?

 

[skcatlman]

HM just so that you know i have researched the closure of the South Korean border to US beef , it has nothing to do with the possible mixing of canadian and US cattle as you had led me to believe. According to press releases put out by the S.Korean gov. the reason for closure of their border to US beef is that they were finding bone fragments in boneless beef shipped to them. A clear violation of what they said they would accept, other releases from Hong Kong said that govenment was stopping US imports for the same reason. So Janap ,S. Korea and H.K. all shut your product out. When another country sets rules you have to follow them, they said boneless beef that means no bones or parts of bones. How much clearer can it be. And it was stated that the reason asian markets don't want US beef is a concern of mixing with Canadian beef. Maybe it has more to do with ever time an asian country opens their border to US boneless beef they find bone fragments. Follow the dam rules!!! , you are not above the law!!!!!. for conformation check out the dow jones press. BLAME canada bla bla bla , But you can't say canada put the bone in those shipments. oh wait this is r-calf we are talking about some how it will be canada's fault that there was bone in US boneless shipments.

 

[Oldtimer]

HM just so that you know i have researched the closure of the South Korean border to US beef , it has nothing to do with the possible mixing of canadian and US cattle as you had led me to believe. According to press releases put out by the S.Korean gov. the reason for closure of their border to US beef is that they were finding bone fragments in boneless beef shipped to them. A clear violation of what they said they would accept, other releases from Hong Kong said that govenment was stopping US imports for the same reason. So Janap ,S. Korea and H.K. all shut your product out. When another country sets rules you have to follow them, they said boneless beef that means no bones or parts of bones. How much clearer can it be. And it was stated that the reason asian markets don't want US beef is a concern of mixing with Canadian beef. Maybe it has more to do with ever time an asian country opens their border to US boneless beef they find bone fragments. Follow the dam rules!!! , you are not above the law!!!!!. for conformation check out the dow jones press. BLAME canada bla bla bla , But you can't say canada put the bone in those shipments. oh wait this is r-calf we are talking about some how it will be canada's fault that there was bone in US boneless shipments.

Wrong skcattleman-- Before Korea even would agree to take our beef, the USDA had to prove that the packers could segregate out all Canadian beef- which we were doing for them-- it was a big issue...Same as we were segregating out Canadian for the Japanese too for some time.... Look a little deeper and you will find those....

As far as the bones- Korea has put a 0 tolerance on bone- which according to the Packers is absolutely impossible to meet...I think the last piece found was actually a gristle piece like 1/4 inch long....They're playing games...

If we inspected Canada's like Korea was inspecting ours- Canada would not be sending down any beef either...

 

[skcatlman]

OT you no longer have to segregate Canadian product for Japan as they accept canadian beef . As for south korea your gov agreed to separate Canadian beef but the reason they have closed the border now is that your packers violated their regulations. Boneless means boneless ,as far as it being almost impossible to meet the standards they can be met none the less. So your packers will have to make sure no gristle get in shipments how hard is that? if you want into that market you have to follow the rules to the letter. So am i reading your response right the koreans are playing games because they expect rules to be followed, so it is south korea's fault they didn't overlook the fact there was bone in supposedly boneless shipments? As for the enforcement of the rules each govenment is responsible for the enforcement of their policies. When are you going to stop blaming others for problems created in the US. The S.Koreans didn't pack the contaminated shipments.

 

[Tam]

Hey skcatlman I was reading this thread and thought you might like to read a story about how Oldtimer and Haymaker went in front of the OIE and how it went. It was posted on Ranchers. I think it was written by Oldtimers autobiography ghost writer ;-)

OIE board ............ok Oldtimer and Haymaker why are you here today?
Oldtimer ......... members of the OIE board we are here today to ask that you grant the much superior US cattle industry a more favorable BSE risk profile.
OIE board..........ok could the two of you explain in detail why the board should grant this more favorable profile ?
Oldtimer .......(Standing with a puffed out chest) Well you see I have years of looking at the evidence due to the fact I was in law enforcement in small town Montana for thirty years, and this is the way I read it. The US can't possibly be in the same risk category as Canada they have had 4 post feed ban positives. You have to grant us a more favorable risk category as we just can't be the same as Canada
OIE board...... What is your story Haymaker?
Haymaker .......( surprised they asked him as he was just there for support, to cheer Oldtimer on) Well I agree with my friend here we just can't be in the same risk category. you see our beef organization leader said so!!!
OIE board....... Who is you Beef organization
Oldtimer....... R-CALF USA ( again with the puffed out chest and proud as a peacock look on his face)
OIE board ....... Isn't that the organization that misreads the meaning of our guidelines. (Puzzled look on faces)
Oldtimer ....... (Clearing his throat) Well well lets get back to the reason we are here today. The evidence is we have only had two pre feed ban cases and Canada has had 4 post feed ban cases. That should tell you all that the US is less of a risk.
Haymaker..... And besides if Canada hadn't of put the spot light on North America nobody would have known about our two cases. (Double winking at all the board)
OIE board....... What do you mean Haymaker? ( intently looking for an explanation)
Oldtimer ...... ( worried look on face) can we get back to the fact Canada has had four post feed ban positives and we can't possibly be as large of a risk as they are.
OIE board...... ( shuffleing papers) I see by your letter here you claim to have 99% compliance to your feed ban and that you have claimed it effectively protected you from the spread of BSE. Do you have records to prove what you say?
Oldtimer...... Well our testing hasn't found any post feed ban positives has it, thats proof enough for us. (Oldtimer then winks at Haymaker)
Haymaker ........besides I read in the Washington post that we have the safest beef in the world raised to the highest Standards in the World, that has to tell you something doesn't it?( Haymaker winks back at Oldtimer)
One board member whispers to another board member..... Have you seen Broke Back Mountain (motioning with his eyes to Oldtimer and Haymaker. and snickers to himself)
OIE board......(Again shuffling papers) Well let us look at the investigations into your BSE cases we see here you never found the birthplace of the Alabama cow what do you have to say about that?
Oldtimer.....( with a all knowing look and thumbs poked into his suspenders) well you see not all states have a brand system but if it had happened in Montana I guarantee as a State Brand inspector we would have had the producer's name in no more than 6 to 8 weeks using our system that has never failed us in the past 100 years.
OIE board..... (Turning their attention to Haymaker who is distracted by the fan on the ceiling ) Since Haymaker is from Texas can you explain about the BSE cow in that State.
Haymaker........( quickly bring his one eye back down to look at the board while keeping the other on the spinning fan) which one do you mean your honor?
OIE board....... Do you mean there was more than one Texas cow with BSE? (looking puzzled and shuffling the papers in front of them)
Haymaker ....... (bringing both eyes to attention) not by our testing results thanks to the quick thinking of a Texan that discretely made a targeted cow disappear before samples could be taken!!! ( said with a big grin of pleasure on his face and another wink in Oldtimers direction )
Oldtimer......(motioning for Haymaker to zip it about the first Texas cow) can we please get back to what our record shows.
OIE board......( more paper shuffling) We see here that after the USDA negotiated a boneless meat deal with Korea, Korea rejected your first shipment due to bone chips what do you have to say about that?
Oldtimer......(quietly says to Haymaker) I think Creekstone was just trying to get something on the record to use in their case against you know who. (then another wink exchanges between the two)
Second Board member back to first board member... I see what you mean (laughing under his breath)
OIE Board ...... What do you mean?
Oldtimer......( surprised look) Did I just say that out loud, ( trying to distract attention from his comment) Please can we get back to the fact Canada has found 4 post feed ban positives.
OIE board. (again more paper shuffling) We see Japan re-ban your beef Why?
Haymaker..... (With a wink to the board) I guess that is what you get for being nice and sending them a little something extra in their boxes for Christmas.
Oldtimer.......( elbowing Haymaker and giggling like a little girl) Please can we get a back to why we are here.
Haymaker .....( With a very sober face) If I could your honors I would like to add that the BSE the US has is not the deadly kind Canada has, ours is BSE LITE.
OIE board....... I think we have heard enough let use talk between ourselves. ( while Oldtimer and Haymaker leave the room High fiving each other and patting each other on the back the two board members bust out laughing)
OIE chairmen look at the two and ask Please explain your behavior, after they explain, the whole board has a good laugh and call Oldtimer and Haymaker back in.
OIE board...... Here are our recommendations to take back to your industry. (With a very sober look on face)
1. If you want to claim 99% compliance of an effective feed ban, have records that prove it, we don't rule on Hear say.
2. Just because your testing hasn't found more BSE doesn't mean your feed ban was effective, it could mean the spot light may not have been bright enough to stop all the cheating that Haymaker hinted to. So go back and test the animals we recommended years ago with the right testing protocol.
3. do us all a favor and get to work on a National ID system that works as your investigations have proven your hit and miss 100 year old Brand system is not good enough if you want to trade in the global marketplace.
4. Get all your packers together in one place and teach them what countries will except what and that boneless means boneless even when you are trying to get something on the record. Why should other countries except ban product when all you are doing is trying to discredit your regulatory agency.
5. Please tell your leader again that our guidelines are not written in stone step by step rules they are just Guideline. and more importantly we have never said that trade with BSE affect countries should be ban. We said after a complete risk assessment is done trade should resume under certain conditions.

Now this is for you Oldtimer since you have a background in law enforcement and are a Montana Brand inspector we have two requests of you.

1. Please call Nebraska and South Dakota and use your 30 years of experience and talk to the packer, trucker, sale barn operator, and feedlot guy and get the truth out of them even if it takes you all of a couple of hours. Stop harassing the Canadians for something that may turn out to have nothing to do with them.

2. The next request might take a bit longer but we trust you are as trustworthy and honest as your voters thought and will do all you can. It is to go back to Montana and find your fellow R-CALF member that is continually sending misleading attention grabbing headlines to the US Congressmen and Senators. As we are tired of repeatedly correcting the information he is trying to use to further R-CALFs protectionist agenda. Please start with pointing out to this poor mislead man that there is not one shred of evidence that proves CJD is caused by eating Beef.

Thank you both for bringing your request to us BUT since your answers and the US records does not give us any confidence in your system our final suggestion to you is go back to the US and don't come back until you can stop blaming others for your problems and have done something about updating your antiquated beef industry so you can trade in a global marketplace without risking others lives. ( which is followed by a group wink to the two Broke down cowboys)

Curtains close on Oldtimer and Haymaker with hats in hand walking from the board room whispering....... What the H*** do they know we are US beef producers and Leo told us we have the safest beef in the world raised to the highest standards in the world, besides our friend Sandhusker has gone on recorded defending Leo's comments about the US maintaining standards that would stop any risk of BSE being introduced into the US beef herd and risking US consumers. They both can't be wrong. ( at this point they take each other by the hand and disappear into the mountains before returning to the US)

Hope you enjoy it ;-) :lol:

 

[Oldtimer]

Tam

Calling/insinuating folks are homosexuals-- and then claiming you don't know who did it-- when you have been the one doing this on ranchers is wrong and the cowards way....

I could post all kinds of posts about your repressed homosexual feelings and other problems you have been displaying--But instead I will honor the board....

Apparently you didn't read Macons top post of the site......

I will post only the facts and my feelings/opinions about the issues- I won't engage you in a fictional PI$$ING CONTEST......

I'm tired of the bickering. No more politics. No more character assinations. I will delete your first two posts that violate this policy. Three strikes and your Username, email and IP will be permanently banned!

You have been warned!!

I might be the only one left on these Boards, but that's OK. I talk to myself a lot anyway.

 

[skcatlman]

OT i'm not judging , what ever spins your spurs. Just not my thing, personally. Just a quote to think about - " i think thow dusth protest too loudly" - w.shakespear.

 

[Tam]

Tam

Calling/insinuating folks are homosexuals-- and then claiming you don't know who did it-- when you have been the one doing this on ranchers is wrong and the cowards way....

I could post all kinds of posts about your repressed homosexual feelings and other problems you have been displaying--But instead I will honor the board....

Apparently you didn't read Macons top post of the site......

I will post only the facts and my feelings/opinions about the issues- I won't engage you in a fictional PI$$ING CONTEST......

I'm tired of the bickering. No more politics. No more character assinations. I will delete your first two posts that violate this policy. Three strikes and your Username, email and IP will be permanently banned!

You have been warned!!

I might be the only one left on these Boards, but that's OK. I talk to myself a lot anyway.

Touchy :lol: Touchy :lol: Where is that sense of humor we are all so fond of Oldtimer ;-) ;-) :lol: :lol: As far as hiding the fact who wrote it I doubt I could have since half the posters on here also post on Ranchers and I didn't hide the fact I wrote it over there as I begged mwj to let me write the story about your visit to the OIE. ;-) You need to lighten up. ;-)

BTW was your post calling me a liar pulled or the one that Haymaker called me Promiscuous I find them a bit on the character assinating side when I wasn't on here to defend myself ;-)

 

[HAY MAKER]

Tam

Calling/insinuating folks are homosexuals-- and then claiming you don't know who did it-- when you have been the one doing this on ranchers is wrong and the cowards way....

I could post all kinds of posts about your repressed homosexual feelings and other problems you have been displaying--But instead I will honor the board....

Apparently you didn't read Macons top post of the site......

I will post only the facts and my feelings/opinions about the issues- I won't engage you in a fictional PI$$ING CONTEST......

I'm tired of the bickering. No more politics. No more character assinations. I will delete your first two posts that violate this policy. Three strikes and your Username, email and IP will be permanently banned!

You have been warned!!

I might be the only one left on these Boards, but that's OK. I talk to myself a lot anyway.

Touchy :lol: Touchy :lol: Where is that sense of humor we are all so fond of Oldtimer ;-) ;-) :lol: :lol: As far as hiding the fact who wrote it I doubt I could have since half the posters on here also post on Ranchers and I didn't hide the fact I wrote it over there as I begged mwj to let me write the story about your visit to the OIE. ;-) You need to lighten up. ;-)

BTW was your post calling me a liar pulled or the one that Haymaker called me Promiscuous I find them a bit on the character assinating side when I wasn't on here to defend myself ;-)

No Miss Tam,you are wrong,and as you can see that sort of activity will not be tolerated on the board.
Your post was deleted,and rightly so.................good luck

 

[Tam]

Oh was it now. Funny on my computer it still shows up ;-) Have another drink Haymaker it might clear up your blurred vision :lol: :lol:

 

[HAY MAKER]

Oh was it now. Funny on my computer it still shows up ;-) Have another drink Haymaker it might clear up your blurred vision :lol: :lol:

Well if it is...........I cant find it,as I have a tendency to overlook the majority of your posts anyway ;-) ..............good luck

 

[skcatlman]

As for the rules on this site there have to be clear character assainations or attack on here ,people seem to be able to be side stepped the rules. I see the rules are kinda lax but not as bad as on ranchers i saw posts on there about dropping nuclear bombs on canada, invading canada and imprisoning canadian men and abusing to canadian wemen. It is crap like that i have no time for. I want to discuss problems and solve them. I want to understand why R-CALF hates canadian cattle producers. Why R-calf members have paraniod delusions about world trade? It will take awhile i have more questions but i hope to understand R-CALF at some point?

 

[HAY MAKER]

As for the rules on this site there have to be clear character assainations or attack on here ,people seem to be able to be side stepped the rules. I see the rules are kinda lax but not as bad as on ranchers

i saw posts on there about dropping nuclear bombs on canada, invading canada and imprisoning canadian men and abusing to canadian wemen.

It is crap like that i have no time for. I want to discuss problems and solve them. I want to understand why R-CALF hates canadian cattle producers. Why R-calf members have paraniod delusions about world trade? It will take awhile i have more questions but i hope to understand R-CALF at some point?

You are dramatizing again skcatlman,I dont know of a single person that hates canadians,I doubt you get far spreading that "BS" as far as your theory on trade,I will post some facts,seriously,you really need to quit this dramatizing,it only diminishes your credibility

PS study this http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16400

 

[skcatlman]

Yeah OT that is why people talk of doing such things to canadians. And no ill will towards canadians.PLease!!! It is like r-calfers think canadians purposefully imported BSE and spead it around to damage the US. R-calf members attack continuously our surveilence system, tracing system, testing system all we are trying to do is produce a safe high quality product. But all they can do is say how inaffectual we are. When the system in the US is either not as good(testing rate)or non exsistant(tracing system). Hate is not only statements but actions prove it. Why not have the R-Calf president come up here and speak his message up here see how it goes over.If you constantly critcize at least make it constructive, but that is not the case. And you put into question Tam's honor then get bent out of shape when she turns it back on you. I will dispell the myth canadians are nice to a fault but wrong us and we will respond and you won't like it. As far as my theroy on trade the reason countries have stopped trade is they are scared and so they put in rules and yes the rules must be follow . their rules have been dismissed as too harsh but that is not how they see it.From what i understand of r-calf they are protectionists that are willing to do anything to allow only export beef and allow no imports. The tactics are not above board. I'll put it simple from what i have seen they are really good at cheap shots and low blows. It shows a lack of principle they have in my eyes.

 

[mwj]

Yeah OT that is why people talk of doing such things to canadians. And no ill will towards canadians.PLease!!! It is like r-calfers think canadians purposefully imported BSE and spead it around to damage the US. R-calf members attack continuously our surveilence system, tracing system, testing system all we are trying to do is produce a safe high quality product. But all they can do is say how inaffectual we are. When the system in the US is either not as good(testing rate)or non exsistant(tracing system). Hate is not only statements but actions prove it. Why not have the R-Calf president come up here and speak his message up here see how it goes over.If you constantly critcize at least make it constructive, but that is not the case. And you put into question Tam's honor then get bent out of shape when she turns it back on you. I will dispell the myth canadians are nice to a fault but wrong us and we will respond and you won't like it. As far as my theroy on trade the reason countries have stopped trade is they are scared and so they put in rules and yes the rules must be follow . their rules have been dismissed as too harsh but that is not how they see it.From what i understand of r-calf they are protectionists that are willing to do anything to allow only export beef and allow no imports. The tactics are not above board. I'll put it simple from what i have seen they are really good at cheap shots and low blows. It shows a lack of principle they have in my eyes.

:clap: :cboy: All you have to do is keep track of the ''spin'' and remind them of what they say ;-) It is fun if you stop and think of the check sheet they must have to use so they no what there position is suposed to be at the time. Remind someone of the fact that they said american beef is ''unsafe'' and they will call in the troops to both boards to let the world see that it was not the BAD ''unsafe that they were talking about :roll: It is a fun game that can be played by all. The sad part is to many it is just a game of stir the pot and lets see how many rumors we can get people caught up in.