cow efficiency

[cross_7]

the video posted a while back started me thinking about cow efficiency.
i like to spend time out with cows and stay out there long enough that they don't pay any attention to me.
i have a couple that spend more time out grazing while the rest are laying down.
i have 1 thats not the biggest framed cow but she looks like a hippo and seems graze lots more than the rest.
i been wondering how to determine which cows are the most efficient, wean the heaviest calf with the least feed/grass.
other than weighing feed like in the video i can't say

 

[backhoeboogie]

Good records. I've got cows calving on 10 1/2 month intervals. They are not the prettiest in the pasture but they have nice calves. Money makers. They maintain good body condition. Many heifers have been retained out of these lines. You look at the calving intervals, what those calves fetch at the sale barn.

Two of my matriarch cows are twin sisters out of a heavy bred brindle white face I bought at the sale barn 10 years ago. There are around a dozen cows out of these two in the pasture. Still have some daughter and grand daughter heifers out of them. It was just a stroke of luck when I bid on that brindle. Brangus bulls have sired everything. The cows are medium framed for the most part.

I bought 20 lightweight heifers about 5 years back. Half have been culled. #3 and # 19 have turned out to be highly efficient and I am retaining heifers out of them.

Cow #38 is my best cow by far. She is a char brimmer F1. Her daughters have not had much milk and raise light calves. Everything out of this cow is now terminal. I hate it.

 

[jerry27150]

it would be hard to tell how much each eats as each may get different size bites of grass. if they are on short feed the ones that stay in good shape would be the most effient. i would just keep the ones that raise good calves & are what they call easy keepers. a cow that is always fat & doesn't lose weight while milking heavy will usually raise a poor calf. one that milks off & then gains weight back will usually raise a better calf

 

[djinwa]

Good records. I've got cows calving on 10 1/2 month intervals. They are not the prettiest in the pasture but they have nice calves. Money makers. They maintain good body condition. Many heifers have been retained out of these lines. You look at the calving intervals, what those calves fetch at the sale barn.

Unfortunately, none of this information tells you about efficiency. Again, because a cow produces nice calves and has good body condition does not tell you how much feed it takes to accomplish that.

It's like a trucker talking about how many tons his truck can haul, but has no idea how much fuel it takes.

At some point, breeders would want to measure cow intake and select for those that make the most pounds of calf for the least pounds of feed. We measure alot of things, and it fascinates me that nobody has done this yet.

 

[pdfangus]

it does not have to be that complex....
just keep the playing field level and let the cows sort them selves out according to the criteria you establish....
select the ones that perform consistently in the environment you provide. keep daughters from those females.
Boogie likes cows that calve every 10.5 months..... i like cows that calve right around Labor day every year and wean off a big stout calf in April....
I select the calf and the cows by the weaning weigh averages....Like Boogie says good records. I always give a heifer a second chance if she breeds back....Fertility is criteria one....weaning weight is criteria 2...conformation and structural longevity are critera 3....cow size is not on my scale but is influenced by the bulls that sire the cows as much as by the environment. what that cow does with the feed I provide is the constant factor. I don't throw in wild cards by bringing in females....I select the females that perform in my envioronment and the bulls as well....If you buy females, you reset the comparison clock to zero with every purchase.

 

[novatech]

There are some very good points made on here as to there is more to efficiency than just how much they eat.
If one is only considering feed efficiency then I beleive there are several considerations that could be looked at.
First there are breeds that are known to be better converters of grass than others.
Another would be type. High capacity cows vs low capacity flat sided cows.
Frame size and body weight is a factor.
Genetics: choosing those that are progeny of bulls that have had feed efficiency tests.
Choosing cattle that fit your environment. (You can raise a Brahman in Canada or an Angus in South Texas. Just not efficiently.)

 

[TexasBred]

An exellent study done by some aquantainces down Aggieland way. A long read but covers all areas.

http://nutritionmodels.tamu.edu/papers/ ... 200612.pdf

 

[Mid South Guy]

To a large extent most producers are already indirectly selecting for cow feed efficieny by selecting for milking ability and mature weight. Milking ability directly correlates to lbs. of calf weaned, and mature body weight directly correlates to lbs. of dry matter consumed. The real question is what is the optimal combination of size and milking ability that will produce the most profitable weaned calf? That question remains unanswered, as every producer's situation and enviorment is different and will result in a different answer for different operations. I'm not sure having an exact measurement of individual beef cow feed efficiency is all that useful. In theory, stocking your place with the most efficient cows would allow you to stock more cows and thus wean more calves. For example if ones stocking rate is 4.0 acres/cow, one might be able to stock at 3.5 acres/cow, but how many producers can determine in advance what the maximun stocking rate is (the point where every blade of grass will be consumed without limiting calf production), and how many are willing to take the risk to stock at that rate because of other variables (i.e. weather)? Many can do this with stocker cattle because of the short time they're held and the relative ease of increasing or decreasing herd size. This is not the case with mature breeding cattle.

 

[TexasBred]

To a large extent most producers are already indirectly selecting for cow feed efficieny by selecting for milking ability and mature weight. Milking ability directly correlates to lbs. of calf weaned, and mature body weight directly correlates to lbs. of dry matter consumed. The real question is what is the optimal combination of size and milking ability that will produce the most profitable weaned calf? That question remains unanswered, as every producer's situation and enviorment is different and will result in a different answer for different operations. I'm not sure having an exact measurement of individual beef cow feed efficiency is all that useful. In theory, stocking your place with the most efficient cows would allow you to stock more cows and thus wean more calves. For example if ones stocking rate is 4.0 acres/cow, one might be able to stock at 3.5 acres/cow, but how many producers can determine in advance what the maximun stocking rate is (the point where every blade of grass will be consumed without limiting calf production), and how many are willing to take the risk to stock at that rate because of other variables (i.e. weather)? Many can do this with stocker cattle because of the short time they're held and the relative ease of increasing or decreasing herd size. This is not the case with mature breeding cattle.

To a point......iresults can vary tremendously. One calf from a mating may end up a great milker while the next calf from the same mating doesn't milk well at all. Genes are very fickle.

 

[bigbull338]

they say the most effecient cows are the 1100 to 1250lb range.as they take less grass an hay to raise a calf an maintain themselves.but even the smaller cows have to wean heavy calves to stay in the herd.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Good records. I've got cows calving on 10 1/2 month intervals. They are not the prettiest in the pasture but they have nice calves. Money makers. They maintain good body condition. Many heifers have been retained out of these lines. You look at the calving intervals, what those calves fetch at the sale barn.

Unfortunately, none of this information tells you about efficiency. Again, because a cow produces nice calves and has good body condition does not tell you how much feed it takes to accomplish that.

It's like a trucker talking about how many tons his truck can haul, but has no idea how much fuel it takes.

At some point, breeders would want to measure cow intake and select for those that make the most pounds of calf for the least pounds of feed. We measure alot of things, and it fascinates me that nobody has done this yet.

When she is nursing a calf through winter on her ration of hay and maintaining better body conditions than others, it speaks volumes. But what I value and deem to be efficient and profitable may not fit everyone else's definition of efficiency.

Aint no way I am segregating them out into 80 different pastures to "study" consumption. Aint no way I am putting them in different lots all winter long and putting out hay in each lot. If I did, little more would be observed over what has already been noted.

 

[TexasBred]

Aint no way I am segregating them out into 80 different pastures to "study" consumption. Aint no way I am putting them in different lots all winter long and putting out hay in each lot. If I did, little more would be observed over what has already been noted.

You might be surprized......very pleasantly surprized....but as you said it's not feasible.

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

Have you heard of RFI (relative feed intake)? I new buzz word around here. Local extension agency has done some studies on this; a negative number means that bull/cow eats less feed than the average and a positive number means they eat more. I guess it has a high heritability. Reality, none of us can measure each ounce a cow eats. But, I guess they are trying to come up with an EPD to measure RFI. That way, we have a choice of using feed efficient bulls as AI sires. They did mention that there is no way to "look" at a cow and know if she is efficient at converting grass to pounds, that they were often surprised to see how the study ended up. They tried to guess on the cows which ones were the most efficient, and they were wrong each time!

 

[backhoeboogie]

Aint no way I am segregating them out into 80 different pastures to "study" consumption. Aint no way I am putting them in different lots all winter long and putting out hay in each lot. If I did, little more would be observed over what has already been noted.

You might be surprized......very pleasantly surprized....but as you said it's not feasible.

If you are running a few head and can actually measure such traits - maybe.

I measure it with dollars in and dollars out. Nothing is as efficient as a good nurse cow - period. My mind is all made up like concrete when it comes to this! :lol: On the herd cows, the ones that earn nickels are efficient. If she hogs herself at the bale feeder all day long and does not get out and hustle like others do, she gets herself a trip.

The sales pitch and/or concept works great for Pharo, they say.

You wonder how many of these folks worm regularly etc. And the affects thereto.

 

[TexasBred]

I measure it with dollars in and dollars out. Nothing is as efficient as a good nurse cow - period. My mind is all made up like concrete when it comes to this! :lol: On the herd cows, the ones that earn nickels are efficient. If she hogs herself at the bale feeder all day long and does not get out and hustle like others do, she gets herself a trip.

The sales pitch and/or concept works great for Pharo, they say.

You wonder how many of these folks worm regularly etc. And the affects thereto.

I've raised a lot of calved on nurse cows and with great success....but in my operation a nurse cow was always a failure because she should have still been in the milk herd...she was getting a second chance by raising 4 calves twice and then getting antoher chance to milk one more time. As for cows hanging around the bale feeder, that's as hard to determine as measuring and weighing feed intake unless you live with them 24/7 and take notes .... even then you can't measure intake....only time.

 

[James T]

Have you heard of RFI (relative feed intake)? I new buzz word around here. Local extension agency has done some studies on this; a negative number means that bull/cow eats less feed than the average and a positive number means they eat more. I guess it has a high heritability. Reality, none of us can measure each ounce a cow eats. But, I guess they are trying to come up with an EPD to measure RFI. That way, we have a choice of using feed efficient bulls as AI sires. They did mention that there is no way to "look" at a cow and know if she is efficient at converting grass to pounds, that they were often surprised to see how the study ended up. They tried to guess on the cows which ones were the most efficient, and they were wrong each time!

Excellent points! RFI is often overlooked I think because the whole concept is still rather new to most. CT posted a piece on the subject: www.cattletoday.com/archive/2008/December/CT1811.shtml . That article ends with a fella pushing Braunveh as the most efficient but if you disregard that piece of marketing the other information is very informative. And there is at least one outfit that will perform the measurements: http://www.growsafe.com/rfi.php

I could see where that EPD might come in handy as part of a herd bull evaluation.

 

[backhoeboogie]

I've raised a lot of calved on nurse cows and with great success....but in my operation a nurse cow was always a failure because she should have still been in the milk herd...she was getting a second chance by raising 4 calves twice and then getting antoher chance to milk one more time. As for cows hanging around the bale feeder, that's as hard to determine as measuring and weighing feed intake unless you live with them 24/7 and take notes .... even then you can't measure intake....only time.

Lol my dairy experience is very limited. I actually helped out Mr Hankins bank in the 70's but it was a matter of haying and running them in and out. Dad always had a Jersey we hand milked.

There are indeed a lot of variables. Then I think of the time I hauled some of mine to my property in east Texas near Marshall. They were belly deep in grass and nearly starved to death. They ate constantly over there but the grass was all water - so it seems.

I've got some big gals that are F1's . Some are dairy brangus crosses out of my nurse cows. I would not call them efficient cows. Got others I would put up against anyone else's.

Right now the whole herd needs to be wormed.

 

[dun]

Red Angus has an EPD (maintenance energy) and I would think some other breeds have the equivilent

 

[pdfangus]

In Virginia we had a few breeders who were doing RFI bull feed tests....I am not so plugged in any more and don't know who is still doing them...the problem is that it is labor intensive and expensive and so the tests are generally of too short a duration in my opinion.

 

[bigbluegrass]

I find this topic very interesting. At the ABS AI class this spring, I was told ABS had put their bulls through a feed efficiency test. The results for the top 15 bull are in their catalog. They measured intake and ADG. Looks pretty cut and dry, right? Angus has an EPD $EN that is supposed to predict energy savings in a cow per year, if I understand it correctly. I understand it to essentially predict efficiency (but not directly) - it is very similar to the Red Angus ME EPD if I am not mistaken. It favors smaller cows who SHOULD eat less and maybe produce more? Does feed efficiency play into it? If you look at the ABS results for feed efficiency and compare them to the EPD trait for $EN, there is no correlation. In fact, the top 15 $EN bulls in their catalog are not on the top 15 list for Feed Efficiency. The top bull in their feed efficiency (Bandwidth) has a $EN of -10.78 which is below the Angus average (+0.12). Protege was the second and his $EN is -3.93... So which of these can predict cow efficiency - if either?