Could you hear the bang on a miss?

[Jogeephus]

There was a person that I worked with had a high powered rifle I do not know what caliber. This person stated if shooting at a coyote if the bullet came within two foot of the animal that the sonic boom would kill it I did not question his position as I had to answer to him at work.

I bet he was a wonderful person to have to work for. Did he also claim to be a super hero or a ninja warrior? ;-) :lol2:

 

[hurleyjd]

There was a person that I worked with had a high powered rifle I do not know what caliber. This person stated if shooting at a coyote if the bullet came within two foot of the animal that the sonic boom would kill it I did not question his position as I had to answer to him at work.

I bet he was a wonderful person to have to work for. Did he also claim to be a super hero or a ninja warrior? ;-) :lol2:

Now our jobs was designing repairs for damaged aircraft. He would work feverish for a week on a design and I knew once it was released he would call the next day and say I am sick and will take a few days off. Try to make my design work any way you can. He never under stood that the material with the weakest yield factor would fail even if the design was thick and made from stainless steel.

 

[dun]

There was a person that I worked with had a high powered rifle I do not know what caliber. This person stated if shooting at a coyote if the bullet came within two foot of the animal that the sonic boom would kill it I did not question his position as I had to answer to him at work.

I heard that if you shot in front of the nose of an animal with a 300 weatherby it will kill it from the bullet passing sucking the oxygen out of it's lungs so it would suffocate

 

[farmguy]

All I know is that many years ago a friend and I got into loading our own ammo and lots of powder. He shot at a jack rabbit and it fell dead. When we picked up the rabbit blood was coming from its ears and eyes but NO hole in the head or anywhere. Take that for what it's worth, farmguy.

PS in Viet Nam snipers used sporting rifles but I do not remember what model, I was not one.

 

[Jogeephus]

I've heard "experts" explain to me that a .50 cal will tear a person's arm off if it gets within three foot of them. I know these guys were experts because all the special forces and sniper patches they wear at the shooting range. But if you don't believe these experts you might want to watch this video and decide for yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrHpe5Z93wM

 

[kenny thomas]

Very cool video.
Has anyone tried the Urban Carry concealed holster that's advertised before the,video?

 

[Bright Raven]

I have a hard time believing that it takes 9.8 seconds to get there..
2.2 miles = 11616 ft
speed of sound = 1125 ft/second
11,616/1125 = 10.32 seconds
so it's on the verge of having a subsonic average speed..
Muzzle velocity is about 2700ft/s.. I don't doubt it would be subsonic at impact, I just doubt it would have such a low average velocity.

Unless you are in a silent area (unlike most battle fields), I really doubt you'd hear it

You are correct.....2.2 miles is 11616ft....however in your calculation you are assuming the bullet is flying a dead straight path over that 11616ft....The bullet actually flies an arc to account for both bullet drop and windage. I do not know what windage they had but I know at sea level the bullet will drop aprox 840ft....that is an arc and we know the shortest path is a straight line. The big mystery is the windage the shot was made under....wind will slow the bullet down dramatically so it is impossible to say definitively that the shot was subsonic at the time of impact. Wind over 2.2 miles can change course and strength DRAMATICALLY (ask me how I know...lost an olympic medal on a wind shift)!!! But I would bet the house that it that the shot was subsonic. Its like Schrödinger's cat....sure we say we dont know if the thing is dead or alive after a week in the box, but we all know if you leave a cat in a box for a week with nothing else it will be dead.

When discussing trajectory, the path a projectile follows is influenced by a number of forces. Gravity, wind, atmospheric conditions, resistance, etc. As soon as the primer detonates, the forces on the bullet are initiated.

In regard to barrel life, replacing a barrel is a small price to pay for performance. Throat and barrel erosion became an issue in the 1950s with the wildcat cartridges of yesteryear - 220 Swift, etc. Who cares if you are a sniper or a long range professional.

Not only are the forces an issue but there are other limitations. Don't for get the distortion of optics. Warren Page who wrote for Field & Stream coined the phrase "shooting through the swimming pool". If you have ever looked down at your arm when standing in water, you will note the displacement caused by a liquid medium. Atmosphere causes the same distortion. Bench rest shooters commonly refer to distortion and "mirage".

I don't have time to deal with this subject as I would like. So let me open this to Viva, Joe, dun, etc. I particularly want dun to participate because he is probably dated on his long range shooting as I am.

Here is what I would like to explore: is shooting at this range feasible?

Why do I ask? Because the forces acting on projectiles and the limitations of optics in my opinion make shots like this a fluke. It is stated as a record.

The variables between shots on a target at 2.2 miles are too extreme to make shots at that range repeatable. Think about this: at that range even minor changes in the circulation of land air currents will move the projectile not inches but feet. Mirage and optical distortion will vary not inches but feet between shots.

I agree with the concept of "walking in" but even then, the variables between shots would be frustrating.

I want someone to convince me that the trajectory of a projectile fired using rifled barrels and centerfire ammunition, can be precise enough at 2.2 miles to be anything but a fluke.

 

[Nesikep]

I think calling it a fluke would maybe be a little strong, there no doubt is a lot of skill involved, but I would also say that I would not be betting big money on any given shot. As you said, optical distortion in the air alone is going to be very significant especially if there are temperature gradients.

 

[Jogeephus]

I won't go so far as to say it is impossible but I do think it highly unlikely that this shot went off as we might envision those infamous one shot one kill scenarios and if it did go off with one shot then it was a fluke coupled with dumb luck.

I think viva brought up a good point about walking the shot in. This is reasonable but even at that I think this would require another spotting team closer to the target who directed the shots because at 2.2 miles you can't see if the person is friend or foe and you can't just go shooting people.

I also wouldn't be surprised if it were staged to some degree. I'm not knocking the sniper team in any way and if I'm right I admire them all the more but shooting at ranges outside the effective range of your rifle requires you to have your equipment set up for those ranges and this is so far outside of the norm that it would mean the scope mount had to be modified considerably to suit this range and the rifle would be nearly useless for any shots under this range. So the question is why would you go into battle with a punked out rifle that is only good for shots outside the effective range unless of course you were setting up to break a record? This is what I suspect they did and my hat's off to them.

To give an example of what I mean, a friend's son wanted to punk his .22 cal rifle to shoot 1000 yards. They messed around with this for a long time and after shimming the scope mounts to account for the bullet drop the scope was looking through the barrel so the mounts had to be redesigned to allow an offset to the side of the rifle. The project ended there but this would be a similar situation I would think. The effective range of a .22 is far less than a .50 cal but the principle is still the same. At some point its like tossing horseshoes.

Assuming this isn't fabricated BS, I think Viva is right suggesting the bullets were walked in and I think a secondary spotting team was used to direct the shots and to confirm the kill. I also think more credit needs to be given to the spotter than the trigger puller because someone had to be sharp to account for all the variables they had to contend with. I would also like to know more about the target itself and whether or not he was standing in a crowd at the goat auction. This would make things much easier too. JMO

 

[Bright Raven]

I won't go so far as to say it is impossible but I do think it highly unlikely that this shot went off as we might envision those infamous one shot one kill scenarios and if it did go off with one shot then it was a fluke coupled with dumb luck.

I think viva brought up a good point about walking the shot in. This is reasonable but even at that I think this would require another spotting team closer to the target who directed the shots because at 2.2 miles you can't see if the person is friend or foe and you can't just go shooting people.

I also wouldn't be surprised if it were staged to some degree. I'm not knocking the sniper team in any way and if I'm right I admire them all the more but shooting at ranges outside the effective range of your rifle requires you to have your equipment set up for those ranges and this is so far outside of the norm that it would mean the scope mount had to be modified considerably to suit this range and the rifle would be nearly useless for any shots under this range. So the question is why would you go into battle with a punked out rifle that is only good for shots outside the effective range unless of course you were setting up to break a record? This is what I suspect they did and my hat's off to them.

To give an example of what I mean, a friend's son wanted to punk his .22 cal rifle to shoot 1000 yards. They messed around with this for a long time and after shimming the scope mounts to account for the bullet drop the scope was looking through the barrel so the mounts had to be redesigned to allow an offset to the side of the rifle. The project ended there but this would be a similar situation I would think. The effective range of a .22 is far less than a .50 cal but the principle is still the same. At some point its like tossing horseshoes.

Assuming this isn't fabricated BS, I think Viva is right suggesting the bullets were walked in and I think a secondary spotting team was used to direct the shots and to confirm the kill. I also think more credit needs to be given to the spotter than the trigger puller because someone had to be sharp to account for all the variables they had to contend with. I would also like to know more about the target itself and whether or not he was standing in a crowd at the goat auction. This would make things much easier too. JMO

You and I are on the same page. Maybe Viva can convince us otherwise but at this point, I don't think even a rifle built on the 50 caliber machine gun centerfire cartridge are capable of repeatable accurate shot to shot placement at 2.2 miles.

 

[True Grit Farms]

The bullet has to land somewhere is my guess. I hit a doe in the head at better than 700 yards, the only problem is I was aiming for the shoulder. Myself I'd rather be lucky than good, a sniper is good and sometimes gets lucky.

 

[Jogeephus]

The bullet has to land somewhere is my guess. I hit a doe in the head at better than 700 yards, the only problem is I was aiming for the shoulder. Myself I'd rather be lucky than good, a sniper is good and sometimes gets lucky.

I agree. One of the best shots I ever made was a prairie dog at 867 yards with a 15 mph crosswind using a slightly modified AR15. It only took ONE shot to kill that prairie dog and there is really no need to discuss the other shots that lead up to that ONE shot. :lol:

 

[True Grit Farms]

The bullet has to land somewhere is my guess. I hit a doe in the head at better than 700 yards, the only problem is I was aiming for the shoulder. Myself I'd rather be lucky than good, a sniper is good and sometimes gets lucky.

I agree. One of the best shots I ever made was a prairie dog at 867 yards with a 15 mph crosswind using a slightly modified AR15. It only took ONE shot to kill that prairie dog and there is really no need to discuss the other shots that lead up to that ONE shot. :lol:

That's what I like about dove shoots. Can't believe you missed some and can't believe you hit some. But all the misses are forgotten back at the truck.

 

[dun]

Even a blind hog............................

 

[callmefence]

No. Would not hear the report on a miss at 2.2 miles. Long range rifle shooting is intriguing. Loading precision ammunition is a skill in itself. I would like to know what bullets they use. I was using Lapua bullets and brass when I was shooting long range rifle in Montana.

I have my two bench rifles. Cooper Arms. One is .223 Remington and the other is 6.5 x .284.

http://www.lapua.com/en/products/reloading/bullets

Texas dps 1500 acre training facility is 5 miles as the crow flies. On a quite evening with the right light wind. We can hear small arms fire.

 

[Bright Raven]

No. Would not hear the report on a miss at 2.2 miles. Long range rifle shooting is intriguing. Loading precision ammunition is a skill in itself. I would like to know what bullets they use. I was using Lapua bullets and brass when I was shooting long range rifle in Montana.

I have my two bench rifles. Cooper Arms. One is .223 Remington and the other is 6.5 x .284.

http://www.lapua.com/en/products/reloading/bullets

Texas dps 1500 acre training facility is 5 miles as the crow flies. On a quite evening with the right light wind. We can hear small arms fire.

I bet you are correct if atmospheric conditions are right and there is no background noise.

 

[Nesikep]

You certainly wouldn't know you were the target unless the stray bullet hit something near you that made noise