Color discrimination

[ArrowHBrand]

Has anyone had a calf discriminated against because of color? I'm not going to name names and I don't have proof, but it really makes a person wonder when you are at a show, participating or watching, and you know which is the best calf, but that calf gets second to a black calf. Take Maines for instance they can either be black or red or if they are high % maines even have some white thrown in there. I've seen it many times where a lesser quality black calf will win over a better colored calf. I will admit my surprise though a couple of years ago my wife and I had a great shorty steer who had won his class and went into overall with all other black calves. Lets just say Bert stuck out like a sore thumb, he had a twin brother named Ernie, but anyway he ended up winning the steer show. You always see or hear of these participants dying the brown tint out of their calves or of painting over some white when color should have no place on the judges tally sheet. Opinions?

 

[Colorado2008]

Here's another topic that will never be settled.

Yes, we have had a calf 'discriminated' against due to his color. He was a Charolais Main crosss so he was they off white tan color. Took him to fair and placed at the bottom of the class. The judges reasons were "this tan calf would make a great feed lot calf". That was it. His comment had all sorts of people fired up and even the Grand Champion told her that she belonged to be the Grand and not him.

Clearly you can see a dominance in the black cattle. They hide flaws better and you can do a lot more things with their hair,but a good judge can see through the hair and even the color.

Thats just what I thin any ways.

 

[L Weir]

I'm sure it depends on the judge. I've heard judges put down animals because of color in their reasons. Black hided animals used to always win at our shows. But now any more. The past three years at our county fair its been red angus, red shorthorn, and a white shorthorn that has won. The black angus are the most popular here and they do win on occasion.

 

[Angus Cattle Girl]

I have seen many black calves get placed higher than nicer red, roan, or grey/white calves.

I guess black is just 'the' color of the show ring in the mixed breed classes. Not in all instances though, when I have saw Shorthorns take the Grand over Maines.

It just overall depends on the judge it seems.

-Angus Girl

 

[ArrowHBrand]

I think it all depends on the judges too, but it seems pretty interesting when the show is over the judge goes back to the chutes and is laughing, joking, and drinking beer with either the top placers or the winner. Hey just something I've seen more than once. If that judge would have told me my Char cross would make a great feed lot calf I would have come unglued.

 

[Tx-beefmaster-showman]

We should think about how we use the word discriminate. In the beefmaster breed, as you may know, they come in many different colors. I have dealt with black and other colors. In my past experiences i realized that in the show ring (the way that the lighting always seems to be) it makes the shadows just right for the black cows. It helps the shadows cover any little indention or maybe a flaw, while (for instance) the reds are standing there and the judge can see the body more easily.
I will try to find some pictures to better explain myself.

 

[Grand Chaser]

Yes i have. i will not name the judge but he is well known in florida. but i was in a class with 3 black mainX calves a red beefmaster and i had a yellow pided simmi steer that weighed 1201 and had more finish on him than ANY calf in the class. the beefmaster had enough dewlap and sheath on him to make up at least 40lbs. and a sway back... no muscling... no cover... no hair.{and i like a good beefmaster but this one needed to be sent to the feed lot} my steer was pretty slick too and those black calves had hair like a maine should and i got placed last in my class. my steer had great muscling, great cover, and the frame to hold it all on. the judge basicly said along the lines of this calf is yellow and i dislike the color so he's last.

he had NO reason what-so-ever to place him last. if you want to see the calf pm me an i'll send you the pic. Now i'm normally a very good sportsman and i know where i'm going to place but that judge destroyed me that night and it was even worse because everyone there said i had at least third. But then when we got the carcass scores back he was reserve grand carcass. so thats my color discrimination story.

 

[Keren]

I'm not sure I would call it 'colour discrimination', but what you are describing is just a fact of life. Life is unfair and the showring is even more unfair. I have been to a royal show where I took a team of 15 shorthorn and shorthorn cross steers and not one of them placed on the hoof. Out of 128 steers on the day, not one shorthorn steer was placed in the top 10 of a class. However, when the carcase results came back, every one of my steers won a ribbon.

This year at sydney, belted galloways did extremely well in the carcase competition, being only a few points away from the angus steers. But no one would ever place a beltie on the hoof, and there are only a few brave souls who would feed them out for show (myself excluded - I also thought they were not much more than a hobby breed, but I was wrong - those results were eye opening).

We get the same thing in interbreed competitions here with our murray greys, not so much a 'colour discrimination' but a 'breed discrimination'. Almost every interbreed winner at royal shows here is angus-charolais-shorthorn. There is not a lot of allowance for other breeds. Showing square meaters last year in the interbreed, the judge said and I quote "Today I am looking for an animal which can fit all the markets in australia, breeds like the angus, shorthorn, charolais and to a lesser extent limousin. For this reason I will not be looking at the small breeds, such as lowlines and square meaters, as there is not much point". Yet the competition outlines state that the class is for the animal which best represents its breed.
Square meaters are not supposed to fit all the markets, they were developed specifically to fit a niche market - the milk fed vealer.

As I said, it is just a fact of the showring that often black hided animals are placed over just as good or superior coloured animals. The way I see it, you have three options:
a)if you dont like it, go and show black cattle
b)show your red/white/yellow etc cattle but whinge and complain about the unfairness of it all
c)show your red/white/yellow etc cattle and consistently put out better and better animals until they have no choice but to take notice of you.

That last one has worked well for us the past few years. You have to put out animals far far better than you would if they were black, but thats just the way it is.

I will get off my soap box now.

 

[Bek]

I'm not sure I would call it 'colour discrimination', but what you are describing is just a fact of life. Life is unfair and the showring is even more unfair. I have been to a royal show where I took a team of 15 shorthorn and shorthorn cross steers and not one of them placed on the hoof. Out of 128 steers on the day, not one shorthorn steer was placed in the top 10 of a class. However, when the carcase results came back, every one of my steers won a ribbon.

This year at sydney, belted galloways did extremely well in the carcase competition, being only a few points away from the angus steers. But no one would ever place a beltie on the hoof, and there are only a few brave souls who would feed them out for show (myself excluded - I also thought they were not much more than a hobby breed, but I was wrong - those results were eye opening).

We get the same thing in interbreed competitions here with our murray greys, not so much a 'colour discrimination' but a 'breed discrimination'. Almost every interbreed winner at royal shows here is angus-charolais-shorthorn. There is not a lot of allowance for other breeds. Showing square meaters last year in the interbreed, the judge said and I quote "Today I am looking for an animal which can fit all the markets in australia, breeds like the angus, shorthorn, charolais and to a lesser extent limousin. For this reason I will not be looking at the small breeds, such as lowlines and square meaters, as there is not much point". Yet the competition outlines state that the class is for the animal which best represents its breed.
Square meaters are not supposed to fit all the markets, they were developed specifically to fit a niche market - the milk fed vealer.

As I said, it is just a fact of the showring that often black hided animals are placed over just as good or superior coloured animals. The way I see it, you have three options:
a)if you dont like it, go and show black cattle
b)show your red/white/yellow etc cattle but whinge and complain about the unfairness of it all
c)show your red/white/yellow etc cattle and consistently put out better and better animals until they have no choice but to take notice of you.

That last one has worked well for us the past few years. You have to put out animals far far better than you would if they were black, but thats just the way it is.

I will get off my soap box now.

Perfectly Said!!!!!! We've only had two judges(out of about 10) this year that judged the Dexters as a dual purpose animal, rather than just the beef market, because most of the judges have said "we're in a beef ring, so I'm going to judge them as a beef animal." Ahh well. Another example is I saw the best Lowline I have EVER seen in Australia. It went up against a mediocre Charolais bull(and that's a big thing for me to say anything against Charolais lol, In this case it was warranted though) and a potential Royal class winning Droughtmaster. THe charolais won, but the point was, that the animal should be judged as what it's breed guidelines specify, not what the "market" wants - that's for led steer comps!

 

[Australian Cattleman]

good comments girls,they are so true.

 

[iowahawkeyes]

Great post Keren. I agree with you. We have all colors of cattle and choose to show Herfs because they are tame for the kids. We see the discrimination every time we show, but it is part of it and I know it's there. I've been on the good side of it too. But in the last 4 shows we have been to, our herfs has been in the top 4 three times and top 5 once. It takes a strong judge to place a breed animal in the top. There is a lot of pressure on them to pick the crossbreds. Like Keren said, when picking animals, look within its breed. Is it exceptional? Then pick it.

 

[Australian Cattleman]

I show at a show about 100 ks from my place and usually Herefords win most of the interbreeds. Last year the 2 judges were a Hereford breeder and an Angus. The whole day was Angus Hereford. The only breed to get a look in was a very good Charolais Cow. I had an exceptionally good South Devon bull that should have beaten one of the Hereford winners..Not enough supposed good judges know enough about individual breeds.

 

[cityslicker55]

usually the only way a colored calf will win a show if it is just absolutely awesome......for a judge to pick a colored calf it has to have something that just stands out........a judge picked a smokey calf for our FFA jackpot show because he had such a cool look otherwise a black calf would have won.

someone once told me that back in the old days judges would give reserve to the colored calf or the breed calf just to award it for being a good animal it its breed.

 

[ArrowHBrand]

I always try to be a good sportsman, but when everyone around you picks the same colored calf to win and when it doesn't there is a loud audible gasp from the audience, then something is fishy to me. I've also been on the other side of the coin where we had a black calf that was so so and it beat a better colored calf. Shows are judged with one person's opinion that day, sometimes it doesn't come out for you, but it shouldn't hinge on color. Nobody can tell me any different, especially if they haven't ever shown a top notch colored calf that was beat by a weak black calf. It's sad for the kids showing.