Cold, pneumonia, or possibly bronchitis, or something else?

[mermill2]

The little calf seems to be doing better in the scours department. She looks to be over the scours, stool is not runny. Anyway,sometimes I can pick up a "snotting" noise, and see slight amount of drainage. She was running this am. Anyway, temperature 102.2, this am She is drinking water. My question is coud she be having a respiratory thing or things going on? Is the respiratory problem(s) a cold, the beginnings of pneumonia, bronchitis. or something else?? Any replies will be wecome. I am trying to stay on top of this. Thanks Merry

 

[Alice]

Respiratory crud, pneumonia, whatever, follows scours.

Myself, I would give her at least 2 maybe even 3 ccs of nuflor and at least 1 maybe even 2 ccs of banamine.

From what I understand, nuflor lasts for 2 days unless it's injected sub Q...sub Q lasts longer, but I forget how long, 'cause I always give it IM to the babies. Sooooo, after I give the nuflor, the next day, if they're still not doing well, I give it again, or if they are, I give something like Tylosin and banamine. The next day I give nuflor and banamine again, and if they're acting better, I give 2 ccs nuflor and 1 cc banamine. I alternate this until there's at least 3 doses of nuflor. If that hasn't cleared it up, then I try another heavy hitting antibiotic, but I always give banamine with it. And Probios....give probios every time you give any antibiotic.

Merry, you're lucky...the calf doesn't sound like it's gotten down with whatever crud it's gotten. And, it could be no more than some allergy...but that rattle...the bothers me. I'm glad you noticed it when you did.

Alice

 

[mermill2]

Thanks, Alice for your quick reply. I had heard or read about this respiratory thing following scours. As if you haven;t got enougth problems. Anyway, I guess I will have to call the vet. I don;t know of anyone stocking Nuflor, or banamine. I've been giving her probios. I do have another question. Since we got her and her mother at the stock sale on June 10 th, she had the scours on Sunday, at least that is when we first noticed it. I mean it was like water. I knew we had to act fast. Anywaym what are the possiblities of her haveing the scours before the stock sale , or getting it at the stock sale. Just wondering ?????

 

[Alice]

Anywaym what are the possiblities of her haveing the scours before the stock sale , or getting it at the stock sale. Just wondering ?????

Merry, I'm not remembering how old the baby is, but you got her June 10, so as far as you know, she's 10 days old. She's with her mother, so am I right...did she get colostrum? And, there's a chance that even if she did get colostrum, it wasn't much good, if the mother hadn't been properly vaccinated, in which case, she could get the scours because of low quality colostrum. Did she have scours before the sale...I dunno, I guess she could have, but I'd think you'd have noticed that when she got loaded up...stress like that can cause a calf to shoot out those scours.

My money's on picking the scours up at the salebarn because she didn't have proper immunity from good colostrum.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Alice

 

[mermill2]

Thank you Alice, for replying back. As you can see, we really don't know an age on her. Like you say, start from the 10th , I really felt sorry for her. Presently, I believe she is doing better, I got more medication from the vet. I have been giving her probios, like you all said. She was frisky this am. Gave her a new shot, for pneumonia,and banamine, also. Momma gets up real close. That little calf can be wrangly, and strong. I just want to get her through this bad time. I am sure she will make a good cow. Gary thinks she probaby got colostrum, it could have been, like you said, not very good colostrum. I don't know, wish I did.I am really getting an education, and a lot of experience. I don;t relish learning things the hard way. Thanks again Merry

 

[Alice]

Merry, if you make it the next 4 days, things may work themselves out...especially since you've said she's acting strong. And any colostrum is better than no colostrum. You are doing your best and I wouldn't be surprised if what you're doing doesn't bring good results.

I'm pullin' for ya', darlin',

Alice

 

[gendronf]

Sooooo, after I give the nuflor, the next day, if they're still not doing well, I give it again, or if they are, I give something like Tylosin and banamine.

Alice I think doing this way you overdose on Nuflor. If you give one shot IM, it's good for 48 hours. The concentration of the med in the blood, if you had ggiven the correct dose is optimum. I think it's unnecessary to overdose. This won't accelerate the cure of the calf and it's waste money. One of the side effect of nuflor is scour. I think it's another reason to not overdose

With med too much is not better.

In this case I am with you nuflor is a good choice.

Marcel

 

[Alice]

I agree with you to some extent, Marcel...and it's always been something in the back of my mind. That's why, as a rule, the next day I give something like Tylosin. However, when the calf is really, really bad, I go ahead with the Nuflor again...and come to think of it...when the calf's that bad, I really should begin to prepare myself for the worst, rather than medicating the h*ell out of it. Thanks for the wake up call.

Alice

 

[mermill2]

Thanks to all of your all's imput. Went over to the farm, just a short while ago. She is spry, running from Gary. Walking around, sometimes running. Brousing on whatever she sees. Nursing Momma. She is just like a fast pony, when she gets going. I am hoping it will soon be over. We have a cow that should be giving birth, soon, the unknown cow. Gary got her at an stockyard auction last year. She was already pregnant, she give birth last year. I forget which month, anyway, went to check on her, calf was dead. Heifer calf, appeared to be full term. Don;t know what happened. About this calf, that isn;t the half of the things that have happened on this farm. Alice, you are really like a good person to talk to , and ask advice from. Merry Everybody is so good with their advice

 

[mermill2]

Thanks to all of your all's imput. Went over to the farm, just a short while ago. She is spry, running from Gary. Walking around, sometimes running. Brousing on whatever she sees. Nursing Momma. She is just like a fast pony, when she gets going. I am hoping it will soon be over. We have a cow that should be giving birth, soon, the unknown cow. Gary got her at an stockyard auction last year. She was already pregnant, she give birth last year. I forget which month, anyway, went to check on her, calf was dead. Heifer calf, appeared to be full term. Don;t know what happened. About this calf, that isn;t the half of the things that have happened on this farm. Alice, you are really like a good person to talk to , and ask advice from. Merry Everybody is so good with their advice

 

[Alice]

Thanks to all of your all's imput. Went over to the farm, just a short while ago. She is spry, running from Gary. Walking around, sometimes running. Brousing on whatever she sees. Nursing Momma. She is just like a fast pony, when she gets going. I am hoping it will soon be over. We have a cow that should be giving birth, soon, the unknown cow. Gary got her at an stockyard auction last year. She was already pregnant, she give birth last year. I forget which month, anyway, went to check on her, calf was dead. Heifer calf, appeared to be full term. Don;t know what happened. About this calf, that isn;t the half of the things that have happened on this farm. Alice, you are really like a good person to talk to , and ask advice from. Merry Everybody is so good with their advice

Merry, I've been where you are...and I enjoy talking to you, too.

Alice

 

[msscamp]

Anywaym what are the possiblities of her haveing the scours before the stock sale , or getting it at the stock sale. Just wondering ?????

And, there's a chance that even if she did get colostrum, it wasn't much good, if the mother hadn't been properly vaccinated, in which case, she could get the scours because of low quality colostrum.



Alice

Antibodys for scours are only passed through the colostrum if the mother was properly vaccinated with some type of Scour-Guard vaccine.

 

[gendronf]

Anywaym what are the possiblities of her haveing the scours before the stock sale , or getting it at the stock sale. Just wondering ?????

And, there's a chance that even if she did get colostrum, it wasn't much good, if the mother hadn't been properly vaccinated, in which case, she could get the scours because of low quality colostrum.



Alice

Antibodys for scours are only passed through the colostrum if the mother had been exposed or was properly vaccinated with some type of Scour-Guard vaccine.

It's a small difference
Marcel

 

[msscamp]

Anywaym what are the possiblities of her haveing the scours before the stock sale , or getting it at the stock sale. Just wondering ?????

And, there's a chance that even if she did get colostrum, it wasn't much good, if the mother hadn't been properly vaccinated, in which case, she could get the scours because of low quality colostrum.



Alice

Antibodys for scours are only passed through the colostrum if the mother had been exposed or was properly vaccinated with some type of Scour-Guard vaccine.

It's a small difference
Marcel

I did not post the bolded part of what you 'quoted', nor do I believe the mother can pass on antibodies from when she was exposed to scours because her immune system was to young. If that were possible most calves would not come down with scours, viral pneumonia, and a few other things as well, nor would there would be a need for Scour-Guard vaccines.

 

[gendronf]

Anywaym what are the possiblities of her haveing the scours before the stock sale , or getting it at the stock sale. Just wondering ?????

And, there's a chance that even if she did get colostrum, it wasn't much good, if the mother hadn't been properly vaccinated, in which case, she could get the scours because of low quality colostrum.



Alice

Antibodys for scours are only passed through the colostrum if the mother had been exposed or was properly vaccinated with some type of Scour-Guard vaccine.

It's a small difference
Marcel

I did not post the bolded part of what you 'quoted', nor do I believe the mother can pass on antibodies from when she was exposed to scours because her immune system was to young. If that were possible most calves would not come down with scours, viral pneumonia, and a few other things as well, nor would there would be a need for Scour-Guard vaccines.

Excuse for the bold part. I did'nt expect this result.
I hope to be forgiven

I beleive that a cow exposed to scours viral pneumonia ect. can pass antibodies to the colostrum. The quality of the antibodies will be less than if she had been vaccines. A cow can be expose to scours all her life not only as a calf.

What retain my attention is the word (only) when you whrote " Antibodys for scours are only passed through the colostrum if the mother was properly vaccinated". I think only was too restrictive.

Marcel

 

[msscamp]

Anywaym what are the possiblities of her haveing the scours before the stock sale , or getting it at the stock sale. Just wondering ?????

And, there's a chance that even if she did get colostrum, it wasn't much good, if the mother hadn't been properly vaccinated, in which case, she could get the scours because of low quality colostrum.



Alice

Antibodys for scours are only passed through the colostrum if the mother had been exposed or was properly vaccinated with some type of Scour-Guard vaccine.

It's a small difference
Marcel

I did not post the bolded part of what you 'quoted', nor do I believe the mother can pass on antibodies from when she was exposed to scours because her immune system was to young. If that were possible most calves would not come down with scours, viral pneumonia, and a few other things as well, nor would there would be a need for Scour-Guard vaccines.

Excuse for the bold part. I did'nt expect this result.
I hope to be forgiven

I beleive that a cow exposed to scours viral pneumonia ect. can pass antibodies to the colostrum. The quality of the antibodies will be less than if she had been vaccines. A cow can be expose to scours all her life not only as a calf.

What retain my attention is the word (only) when you whrote " Antibodys for scours are only passed through the colostrum if the mother was properly vaccinated". I think only was too restrictive.

Marcel

I don't think 'only' is too restrictive. I know that we had some fairly major problems with scours on a recurrent basis until we started scouring guarding our cattle, at which time almost all problems stopped. If the antibodies were able to be passed on those problems would not have been present since we haven't changed location, feeding, calving scenario, or anything else that might affect the mix, and the mothers were part of the herd from the day they were born and a lot of them were the calves we treated in previous years. Since we started Scour-Guarding we've had maybe 4 cases max per year out of 60+ head, and those cases clear up with 2 treatments. I appreciate the request to be forgiven, and you're forgiven.

 

[mermill2]

Hi to all, I think the little calf is over everything. She seems to be doing pretty good. Couldn't write sooner. Embarrassed. forgot my password. 2x so far since, I joined. Finally, found the paper with it on. Thanks for yourall's efforts. Merry

 

[Alice]

Great news! Wooohooo! Good job, Merry!

Alice