cogangrass

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There is a program through NRCS (Invasive species). I am going into the second year of a three year eradication program. I think you may have missed the deadline for this year but you need to apply for the upcoming year. It pays decent money to help get rid of it especially since you NEED to get rid of it anyway. We are using Roundup (generic) and Arsenal ($$$). There is a product that I have that is much cheaper and will produce better results called Cogan something.. I will find it if you want.
 
How much is Arsenal now? Last I bought was $2.75/ounce. At 16 ounce rate, it hurt. It is an awefully good product though.

If you are referring to the product Cogon X, I think $35/quart/acre is pretty expensive when all you are really doing is foliar feeding a 3.3.3 foliar feed. Granted it may have some trace biostimulants such as indole butyric acid or cytokinins but essentially what you are doing is stimulating the growth of the plant so the Roundup will work better. This can be done much cheaper with other products. Just my opinion.
 
I think I used 1 qt Cogan X to 25 gallons of water and was applying about 25 gal to the acre with a hand wand. Overall the local people here seem to be getting better results without the Arsenal and using the Cogan X. The Aresenal was like around $200 per gallon if I remember correctly. I will know more in a year.
 
gulfso":12kk3vl1 said:
I think I used 1 qt Cogan X to 25 gallons of water and was applying about 25 gal to the acre with a hand wand. Overall the local people here seem to be getting better results without the Arsenal and using the Cogan X. The Aresenal was like around $200 per gallon if I remember correctly. I will know more in a year.
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If you only used Cogon X in water you will probably have not done a thing since Cogon X is not a herbicide but fertilizer with a few additives that will heat up the Roundup mix. Making Roundup hot can be done much much cheaper with a lot of other products.

I'm not trying to argue with you but am merely trying to give some food for thought as I am sometimes skeptical of certain studies which are funded by companies and conducted by "neutral" universities. While I'm sure Cogon X is a fine product and am aware that when added to Roundup it increases the killed root mass by 68% when compared to Roundup alone. But at $35/acre for a 3.3.3 liquid fertilizer seems like an awefully high expense when Arsenal alone gave results 83% better than Roundup alone in root kill. To me, a better study would have been to compare a mix of ammonium sulfate and Roundup to see how much of this extra kill was actually due to just making the mix hot. There are also a host of other cheap foliar feedings that could be added to these trials as well. Many of which have growth stimulants in them. I just wonder why these weren't looked at. Why was it confined to just these three treatments? After all, it is our tax dollars that are funding a lot of these efforts. Seems to me it would be in our best interest to find the cheapest most effective way to accomplish the common goal of eradicating this scurge rather than limiting our options due to reasons I need not go into. Of course, I'm all about using cocktails and panther p!ss and other things that the experts don't seem to get funding to study. Just food for thought.
 
Sorry, The Roundup wasn't mentioned in the last post.The first group sprayed was Roundup, Arsenal & Cogan X. The second spraying (different area) was Roundup & Cogan X. Both spraying killed (fall spray) and we have now had frost so it will be Spring to see which did the best. .. actually i am told it will be several springs as I am supposed to spray it again just before it seeds in the spring. Kinda like the shampoo label, rise and repeat, rinse and repeat.....

And I agree about the research. I have been trying to get our County Agent out for nearly two years to look at this and other issues. And to try to get his 2 cents worth, but I wonder if he has 2 cents. Since that is impossible i have been trying various things, some of which I read about here and some things that I stumble on that seems to work. With cattle prices back in the basement I may be doing even less of the fancy $ dollar stuff for a while.

The money I got for cogan grass and popcorn tree eradication didn't cover the cost but it sure helped :tiphat:
 
If it were me, I'd save the Arsenal for the fall treatments and the Roundup for the spring. Based on numerous plots we laid out on an experiment we found Arsenal gave fantastic results in the fall and just so so results in the spring. (The difference was profound enough for American Cyanamide to change its label.) I would also up my solution per acre to the point where it almost runs off the plant and use a real good quality surfactant on both chemicals. In the Roundup treatment I'd do the same but I would try some ammonium sulfate in lieu of the high dollar recommended additive. I'd not mention this and just put the savings in my pocket to make this thing be a zero cost if possible. I seriously doubt you will see any difference in the two Roundup treatments.
 
Makes sense on the Arsenal in the fall. I suspect that has something to do with the growth pattern slowing down and the Roundup does much better when things are in a growth pattern.

Did some reading on your suggestion for the ammonium sulfate and thanks for the suggestion. I would assume you would be better to get a liquid version and probably about a qt to (75-100 gallons) combined with the Roundup? That should be much hotter than the Cogon-X if i am figuring correctly.

Now a new question. Do you add ammonium sulfate to your 2,4-D applications? I see in the readings that it is common. If you do, do you also continue with adding surfactant? I know the surfactant acts as a bonding agent and the ammonium sulfate increases the effectiveness of the product, does one interfere with the other?. (Now would be a good time to curse my county agent again for his lack of advice)
 
I've never used it with 2,4-D but I firmly believe in the use of good surfactants and plenty of it. I deal a lot with waxy leaf vegetation and surfactants are critical to getting a good kill.

Several years ago I did some contract work under a government program. It was similar to what you are probably dealing with but it was bermuda grass eradication. Their prescription - in chemical alone - cost $125/acre. I talked to the landowner and suggested an alternate route of using a surfactant, Roundup, and ammonium sulfate at a chemical cost of $20 per acre. In six months there was absolutely no noticeable difference in the two areas treated. However, like the Cogon experiment, the people funding the bermuda experiment chose not to look at other strategies for whatever reason.

Your agent is probably just doing as he is told - I wouldn't fault him.
 
The Federal people have said these are "recommendations only" and they really don't care what is used, as long as it works so I not faulting them. The Co Agent just doesn't spend much time with small farmers so that is my "fault" regarding him. He isn't your friendly "Hank Kimble" type.

Which of the surfactants do you associate having the best "kill" with. I am pretty much at the mercy of the chemical dealers as to what to use, which happens to be what ever they carry. I also know lot of people who use pure cooking oil and swear they have as good of results as with the expensive oils
 
I did a little reading on the surfactants and it appears most everyone is recommending the MSO rather than a nonionic surfactant. I suspect most of these will be about the same. I've never seen Cogongrass but I'm assuming it must have a oily or waxy covering on the leaf - hence the oil surfactant?

I got to thinking about this and was wondering why Velpar wasn't mentioned. I did a little homework and found this research paper and think you might find it interesting. The folks at Mississippi do real good practical research so there is a lot of info in this paper. They also mention some of the things I was referring to. Maybe this will give you some good info to go on.

http://www.cogongrass.org/conference07/byrd.pdf
 

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