Cloning

[JHH]

Hereford sire had a discussion on this awhile back. Are their very many cloned beef animals in the united states? I havent heard anything about this. Any way a friend was talking about how the cloned horses were flooding the market but still bringing good money.

 

[3waycross]

That poses an interesting question. How do you suppose a race between 10 Secretariats would turn out. I know it's not all nature there would be some nurture involved plus different training methods but an interesting question nevertheless.

 

[Dusty]

I have a cow, (charolais) that has 8 cloned "sisters??" sibs" to her down in Texas.... I have not heard how they reproduce yet but just the idea of having that many would be a blast to see and experience...

 

[showing71]

I know they have cloned a couple club calf bulls. The one they've cloned the most is Heatwave, and I think they're on the 15th clone. From some research I did in college on the topic for a paper, most of the researchers concluded that the animal's longevity isn't as good being a clone, but nothing was said about reproductivity being any different in a clone.

 

[whitecow]

I have a cow, (charolais) that has 8 cloned "sisters??" sibs" to her down in Texas.... I have not heard how they reproduce yet but just the idea of having that many would be a blast to see and experience...

I am the owner of the 9 clones of "248". Seven of them have had their first calves this spring. One other will calve next month and the 9th one aborted her pregnancy at 4 months. All are milking exceptionally well, just like 248. I will start flushing them within the next month or so. If they produce embryos as well as the original (she averaged 19 embryos on 6 flushes when I had her), I will happily be up to ears in embryos.

To my knowledge, the number of bovine clones produced in the U.S. is nearing 1,000. There are no issues with life expectancy of adult clones. If they are born healthy, they lead normal lives.

 

[jhambley]

Sorry if this is rude...but what's the average cost to clone a cow/bull? Success rate?

JH

 

[Alan]

Not to hijack this thread but what would you consider the negitive side(s) of cloning, any worries about reduced gene pools? I know 1000 clones compared to the total number of cattle is a dop in the bucket, but as things go can we tell where cloning will take the industry at this stage?

Alan

 

[Herefords.US]

I have a cow, (charolais) that has 8 cloned "sisters??" sibs" to her down in Texas.... I have not heard how they reproduce yet but just the idea of having that many would be a blast to see and experience...

I am the owner of the 9 clones of "248". Seven of them have had their first calves this spring. One other will calve next month and the 9th one aborted her pregnancy at 4 months. All are milking exceptionally well, just like 248. I will start flushing them within the next month or so. If they produce embryos as well as the original (she averaged 19 embryos on 6 flushes when I had her), I will happily be up to ears in embryos.

To my knowledge, the number of bovine clones produced in the U.S. is nearing 1,000. There are no issues with life expectancy of adult clones. If they are born healthy, they lead normal lives.

I'm curious about how much phenotypic difference there is in the clones. Aren't you having a sale in a couple of days, whitecow?

George

 

[Busterz]

Sorry if this is rude...but what's the average cost to clone a cow/bull? Success rate?

JH

If you read the article in the "RA Brown Ranch" thread it talks about getting a bull cloned for $20,000.

 

[showing71]

Sorry if this is rude...but what's the average cost to clone a cow/bull? Success rate?

JH

If you read the article in the "RA Brown Ranch" thread it talks about getting a bull cloned for $20,000.

I saw somewhere that if you clone the same animal over and over, the cost gets cheaper since they have the DNA all lined up.

 

[Jake]

Last I had heard as far as price is the first close was around $20,000 the second was like $15,000, then 10,000 and $5,000 on the ones after that... But don't quote me for sure as this was hear say but I would guess it to be fairly accurate.

I see no problem with cloning a seedstock animal. If the demand for the genetics is that high there is no reason that the owner shouldn't capitalize on that demand.

 

[TexasBred]

Sorry if this is rude...but what's the average cost to clone a cow/bull? Success rate?

JH

Just like in any other cattle the offspring is not always better or even as good as the original whether cloned, an embryo transplant, AI or just a pasture bred animal. With my luck I'd end up with 9 cloned POS calves and be out a ton of money.

 

[Beef11]

I've priced clones and they run around 10k-20k depending on how many. I've also been involved with cloning it is pretty neat but the practical applications are limited. It is another tool to forward the industry. I know of a handful of clones in my area but they are kept boxed up and hush hush.

 

[dun]

If cloning was 100% a reproduction of an existing animal it might have more practical applications.

 

[redcowsrule33]

If cloning was 100% a reproduction of an existing animal it might have more practical applications.

It is interesting you say that, dun, as clones are "supposed" to be identical twins of the original. However, they can't be as there is one part of your DNA that comes exclusively from the maternal side, the Mitochondrial DNA. This is because you inherit the mitochondria through the egg. To my understanding, unless you use eggs from a related female through the maternal side you will have different mitochondria. I don't think they are replacing these as well as the nuclear dna when they clone, or am I mistaken? If they aren't, then the power plants at the cellular level (mitochondria ) are different. This could theoretically affect the overall performance and metabolism of the clone, no?

 

[dun]

If cloning was 100% a reproduction of an existing animal it might have more practical applications.

It is interesting you say that, dun, as clones are "supposed" to be identical twins of the original. However, they can't be as there is one part of your DNA that comes exclusively from the maternal side, the Mitochondrial DNA. This is because you inherit the mitochondria through the egg. To my understanding, unless you use eggs from a related female through the maternal side you will have different mitochondria. I don't think they are replacing these as well as the nuclear dna when they clone, or am I mistaken? If they aren't, then the power plants at the cellular level (mitochondria ) are different. This could theoretically affect the overall performance and metabolism of the clone, no?

I think there has to be more then just DNA they're missing or something that affects the DNA. As has been discused before, the split embryo clones that ABS had turned out different enough that they could have been from 2 different parents. They are a loooong way from being identical. And being a split embryoboth nuclear and mitochindiral DNA would be the same.

 

[redcowsrule33]

I had forgotten about those two. Ugly suckers, too.

I got to see the first cloned calves as they were being born a long time ago. Not sure if I'm still bound to keeping my mouth shut, but suffice it to say at that point they had a loooong way to go to hit perfection.

 

[whitecow]

True that mitochondrial DNA is only passed on through the egg. Hence, it has no affect on male clones. There have been several studies looking at differences in mtDNA and very few have found any correlation to mtDNA sequences and any measureable traits. One study in dairy cattle did find an association between milk components and mtDNA but it is not clear that that correlation was not also associated with chromosomal genotype. Other differences that clones may have are associated with epigenetics (e.g., DNA methylation). The DNA methylation patterns of clones may be different than the original and different from each other. However, the next generation or the offspring of clones seem to have normal methylation patterns. My interest in cloning "248" was to get as many offspring out of her as I can. I expect they to be just as good as offspring from the original.

FWIW, 8 of my clones are peas in a pod. Even the position of the ovaries/uterus/broad ligament as heifers was identical. One heifer looks a bit different and her repro tract was a bit different. However, I expect her offspring will perform just as well as all the others.

George, M6 Ranch has a Charolais & Hereford bull sale tomorrow. They are also selling some show prospect heifers. Our place is about 10 miles south of M6.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Not to hijack this thread but what would you consider the negitive side(s) of cloning, any worries about reduced gene pools? I know 1000 clones compared to the total number of cattle is a dop in the bucket, but as things go can we tell where cloning will take the industry at this stage?

Alan

There's been several threads on this subject get locked in days past. A whole lot of us have negative feelings about the process.

 

[whitecow]

True that mitochondrial DNA is only passed on through the egg. Hence, it has no affect on male clones. There have been several studies looking at differences in mtDNA and very few have found any correlation to mtDNA sequences and any measureable traits. One study in dairy cattle did find an association between milk components and mtDNA but it is not clear that that correlation was not also associated with chromosomal genotype. Other differences that clones may have are associated with epigenetics (e.g., DNA methylation). The DNA methylation patterns of clones may be different than the original and different from each other. However, the next generation or the offspring of clones seem to have normal methylation patterns. My interest in cloning "248" was to get as many offspring out of her as I can. I expect they to be just as good as offspring from the original.

FWIW, 8 of my clones are peas in a pod. Even the position of the ovaries/uterus/broad ligament as heifers was identical. One heifer looks a bit different and her repro tract was a bit different. However, I expect her offspring will perform just as well as all the others.

George, M6 Ranch has a Charolais & Hereford bull sale tomorrow. They are also selling some show prospect heifers. Our place is about 10 miles south of M6.

In the interest of full disclosure, I should add that I am employed by "The Cloning Company".