Brandonm22
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There is no risk of BSE going from cows to chickens back to cows because the poultry industry won't feed ruminant protein in their feed mixes anymore.
Chicken Litter -- Prohibited?
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RD-Sam
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Brandonm22":zojnx04u said:
The CDC knows it will hit in south Georgia, ask some of the members about all the warnings they get down there. It will likely arrive at Hartsfield Airport and be carried to the chicken houses. This is a very real senario, so real that people are buying remote pieces of land far from this area and building self sufficient homes on them with fresh water supplies.
hillsdown
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Brandonm22":1qgga0sh said:
They won't or is it the law and now all poultry feeds cannot contain reuminant protein (as in enhanced feed ban) ?
ga. prime
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I guess none of you naysayers eat chicken. If you do, you're eating a lot more chicken crap than you would get from a piece of beef that came from an animal that was fed chicken crap.
hillsdown
Well-known member
ga. prime":1ev3a8c1 said:
You are comparing apples to oranges..Just like a cow will graze on grass where there is cow sh@t ,but they are meant to digest this without any anomalies to their prions or proteins in their brain..
Do you think that you could live on a diet of chicken sh@t, after all HS quote says
just add water and you should be good to go..
RD-Sam all very good points, and I believe Jo posted on this awhile ago if I remember correctly and everyone just said they were being "chicken little"..It is indeed not a matter of if but when...
SRBeef
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Whether or not it is "legal" to mix chicken droppings in cattle feed, it just doesn't seem like something cattle left on their own would choose to eat.
We have all seen where cattle are genetically programed to AVOID grazing anywhere near a manure patty in the pasture (the 1 ft radius rule!). It does not seem like a healthy natural thing to force them to eat chicken manure either.
IF you asked a cross section of beef consumers or POTENTIAL beef consumers if they would mind buying beef or eating hamburgers from cattle that have been fed chicken litter I think you know what the consumers answer would be! A resounding "YUCK!"
Discussions like this one arguing the relative merits of feeding chicken manure to cattle and criticizing anyone who objects, are why more and more young people - our future beef consumers - are swayed to become vegetarians! It's not PETA causing all of that - it's partially us with arguments like this.
I would NEVER do it. IF faced with a shortage of feed I'd cull or feed stalks, baleage or something else which cattle themselves would choose to eat.
If it (feeding chicken manure to cattle) is not likely to be a positive thing with your customer then don't do it - is one of the basics of marketing. jmho.
Jim
Hang in there HD!
We have all seen where cattle are genetically programed to AVOID grazing anywhere near a manure patty in the pasture (the 1 ft radius rule!). It does not seem like a healthy natural thing to force them to eat chicken manure either.
IF you asked a cross section of beef consumers or POTENTIAL beef consumers if they would mind buying beef or eating hamburgers from cattle that have been fed chicken litter I think you know what the consumers answer would be! A resounding "YUCK!"
Discussions like this one arguing the relative merits of feeding chicken manure to cattle and criticizing anyone who objects, are why more and more young people - our future beef consumers - are swayed to become vegetarians! It's not PETA causing all of that - it's partially us with arguments like this.
I would NEVER do it. IF faced with a shortage of feed I'd cull or feed stalks, baleage or something else which cattle themselves would choose to eat.
If it (feeding chicken manure to cattle) is not likely to be a positive thing with your customer then don't do it - is one of the basics of marketing. jmho.
Jim
Hang in there HD!
HerefordSire
Well-known member
This document comes from Clemson Extension Service...Note this is a 1995 document......
REGULATORY STATUS
In 1967, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA)
published a policy in the Federal Register (21 CFR
500.4) not sanctioning the use of poultry litter as
animal feed. In 1980, the FDA published a policy
(45 FR 86272) revoking its earlier (1967) policy.
The latter policy essentially leaves to individual
states the regulation of feeding animal waste.
In 1982, the American Association of Feed Control
officials published a model regulation for processed
animal waste. The important points of this regulation
are: (1) the waste must be processed so it will be
free of pathogenic organisms; (2) if it can be documented
by records that animals producing the waste
have not been fed drugs, no withdrawal period is
required and the waste can be fed to any class of
animals; and (3) if it cannot be documented by
records that the animals producing the waste were
not fed drugs, a 15-day withdrawal is required prior to
slaughtering animals or prior to using milk or eggs to
satisfy human safety regulations. Many states have
adopted this regulation as their official position
relative to animal waste recycling.2
Attempts to commercialize animal waste by-products
and ship them across state lines for re-feeding would
involve the FDA and could jeopardize the current
hands-off approach that the agency appears to be
taking.
http://www.clemson.edu/psapublishing/pa ... S/LL52.PDF
REGULATORY STATUS
In 1967, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA)
published a policy in the Federal Register (21 CFR
500.4) not sanctioning the use of poultry litter as
animal feed. In 1980, the FDA published a policy
(45 FR 86272) revoking its earlier (1967) policy.
The latter policy essentially leaves to individual
states the regulation of feeding animal waste.
In 1982, the American Association of Feed Control
officials published a model regulation for processed
animal waste. The important points of this regulation
are: (1) the waste must be processed so it will be
free of pathogenic organisms; (2) if it can be documented
by records that animals producing the waste
have not been fed drugs, no withdrawal period is
required and the waste can be fed to any class of
animals; and (3) if it cannot be documented by
records that the animals producing the waste were
not fed drugs, a 15-day withdrawal is required prior to
slaughtering animals or prior to using milk or eggs to
satisfy human safety regulations. Many states have
adopted this regulation as their official position
relative to animal waste recycling.2
Attempts to commercialize animal waste by-products
and ship them across state lines for re-feeding would
involve the FDA and could jeopardize the current
hands-off approach that the agency appears to be
taking.
http://www.clemson.edu/psapublishing/pa ... S/LL52.PDF
Brandonm22
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We still waiting on the bird flu pandemic. The last time we had one was what ?1919???
Lets take a second look at this scenario.........so the bird flu has to mutate from chickens to people in China. A bird flu infected Chinaman has to get off a plane at Hartsfield then travel 200 miles to a chicken house where all the chickens get sick, then the virus mutates a second time to cows? The influenza then jumps from cows to people who carry it back to Atlanta where they take it all over the world via Hartsfield. Wouldn't the REAL doomsday scenario; be when the virus arrived at Hartsfield?????? Whether it ever got to Georgia chickens or cows would be only a secondary concern.
Lets take a second look at this scenario.........so the bird flu has to mutate from chickens to people in China. A bird flu infected Chinaman has to get off a plane at Hartsfield then travel 200 miles to a chicken house where all the chickens get sick, then the virus mutates a second time to cows? The influenza then jumps from cows to people who carry it back to Atlanta where they take it all over the world via Hartsfield. Wouldn't the REAL doomsday scenario; be when the virus arrived at Hartsfield?????? Whether it ever got to Georgia chickens or cows would be only a secondary concern.
HerefordSire
Well-known member
SRBeef":3pl1swj7 said:
Jim...nice post....allow me to ask you a hypothetical question based upon your statement I encapsulated above. Let's say I have ten chicken houses and Tyson just picked the live chickens up to process them. For this example, suppose the litter cured overnight instead of the correct amount of time and heat, etc. Then I opened all the end chicken house doors as a test. I then opened the cattle gates and allowed 200 head to graze the grass by the chicken houses. I didn't lead them in the chicken houses and they had free choice to eat all the tall grass they wanted growing beside the chicken house the bush hog couldn't get to. So here is the hypothetical question:
Do you think the cattle would not scarf up the litter?
HerefordSire
Well-known member
Of course what? Working on your other questions....
All animals are susceptible to ethylene glycol (EG) toxicity, but it is most common in dogs and cats. Most intoxications are associated with ingestion of radiator antifreeze, which is usually 95% EG. The widespread availability of antifreeze, its sweet taste and small minimum lethal dose, and the lack of public awareness of the toxicity (ie, improper storage and disposal) contribute to the frequency of this intoxication. In addition, antifreeze may be ingested because it is the only available liquid in cold weather or by way of intentional poisoning. Other sources of EG include some heat-exchange fluids used in solar collectors and ice-rink freezing equipment and some brake and transmission fluids. Cutaneous absorption from topical products that contain EG has been reported to cause toxicity in cats.
EG intoxication occurs most commonly in temperate and cold climates because antifreeze is used both to decrease the freezing point and to increase the boiling point of radiator fluid. In colder climates, the incidence of EG intoxications is seasonal with most cases occurring in the fall, winter, and early spring.
The minimum lethal dose of undiluted EG is 1.4 mL/kg body wt in cats, 4.4 mL/kg in dogs, 7-8 mL/kg in poultry, and 2-10 mL/kg in cattle (younger animals may be more susceptible).
Cattle may become depressed, tachypneic, and ataxic, and develop paraparesis or recumbency. Epistaxis and hemoglobinuria have also been seen in cattle that have ingested large doses of EG.
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index ... 210900.htm
HerefordSire
Well-known member
what?":1re6ksxq said:
Yes and probably no in that order but I don't have enough experience. Maybe you could offer some opinions and please try to find some links if you can find them?
rockridgecattle
Well-known member
I can not believe that this arguement is still going on. I rarely head to this board and thought oh let's check out what chrazy thing WHAT? said.
I can not believe after everything we all have been through, after all the borders that have closed, the money we have lost that people still think chicken crap is ok for cows.
When will you people ever get your head out of your @$$ and realize changes need to be made.
Especially when all it takes is for a grain of sand size of BSE particle to infect a calf under 20 or 26 months sentencing it to a awful death and more money lost in closed borders.
And we wonder why our borders just don't open up.
Hillsdown, i apologize for the ignorance of some.
I can not believe after everything we all have been through, after all the borders that have closed, the money we have lost that people still think chicken crap is ok for cows.
When will you people ever get your head out of your @$$ and realize changes need to be made.
Especially when all it takes is for a grain of sand size of BSE particle to infect a calf under 20 or 26 months sentencing it to a awful death and more money lost in closed borders.
And we wonder why our borders just don't open up.
Hillsdown, i apologize for the ignorance of some.
Brandonm22
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what?":33f6ikrz said:
BUT they don't put ruminant protein in chicken feed anymore. We have already established that.
rockridgecattle
Well-known member
as long as a feed house makes any feed with bone meal, like hog feed there is a chance of cross contamination in chicken feed, and ruminent feed. Just ask the Canadian Ranchers who have had the last 9 BSE cases. Their feed was cross contaminated causing the latter 9 cases.
All it takes is a BSE infected particle the size of a grain of sand to contaminate feed. Are you willing to gamble all of our lively hoods just to save a few bucks?
All it takes is a BSE infected particle the size of a grain of sand to contaminate feed. Are you willing to gamble all of our lively hoods just to save a few bucks?
HerefordSire
Well-known member
rockridgecattle":1f2o2g49 said:
This could be the start of a good post rockridgecattle. Do you have a link showing this to be true? ....or is this hearsay only?
rockridgecattle
Well-known member
HerefordSire":3tsni5r9 said:
Not sure how to post a thread link so if it does not work go to health and nutrition and go to the thread "for the Canadian crowd BSE class action" in there is a link to a web site
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=55202
http://www.bseclassaction.ca/english/index_en.htm
all the information you need is there about what has happened in Canada and the documentation i believe is there to. Or you can call them and they will pass the info you need since they have it all
HerefordSire
Well-known member
what?":36tr89z4 said:
I am under the impression there is a 100% ban. If I understand this report correctly, this should provide what you are after....
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES
Food and Drug Administration
21 CFR Part 589
[Docket No. 2002N-0273] (formerly Docket No. 02N-0273)
RIN 0910-AF46
Substances Prohibited From Use in Animal Food or Feed
AGENCY: Food and Drug Administration, HHS.
ACTION: Final rule.
SUMMARY: The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is amending the agency's regulations to
prohibit the use of certain cattle origin materials in the food or feed of all animals. These
materials include the following: The entire carcass of bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE)-
positive cattle; the brains and spinal cords from cattle 30 months of age and older; the entire
carcass of cattle not inspected and passed for human consumption that are 30 months of age or
older from which brains and spinal cords were not removed; tallow that is derived from BSE positive
cattle; tallow that is derived from other materials prohibited by this rule that contains
more than 0.15 percent insoluble impurities; and mechanically separated beef that is derived
from the materials prohibited by this rule. These measures will further strengthen existing
safeguards against BSE.
http://nmaonline.org/pdf/April222008FinalFeedrule.pdf
SRBeef
Well-known member
Chicken litter should be used for FERTILIZER in my opinion. Incorporated into the soil and used as the excellent source of fertilizer it usually is and therefore used to grow some forage crop or row crop that cattle (ruminants) should be putting in their rumen.
Litter (= manure) was naturally used as a fertilizer, not a feed, over the centuries on the prairies of North America and the cattle or buffalo ate the prairie grass that grew from fertile ground. As far as I know they did not go around eating the manure of other mammals or birds.
Use manure as fertilizer not feed. Soil microbes convert manure and litter into the very important elements of a good healthy soil. Cattle normally and naturally graze the forage grown on good healthy soil.
Jim
Litter (= manure) was naturally used as a fertilizer, not a feed, over the centuries on the prairies of North America and the cattle or buffalo ate the prairie grass that grew from fertile ground. As far as I know they did not go around eating the manure of other mammals or birds.
Use manure as fertilizer not feed. Soil microbes convert manure and litter into the very important elements of a good healthy soil. Cattle normally and naturally graze the forage grown on good healthy soil.
Jim
HerefordSire
Well-known member
what?":1r0tjzbh said:
what?..... You posted a different link to the same document to my above posted link. They have the exact same data.
HerefordSire
Well-known member
what?":35b51315 said:
what?...if you would like to refer to a chunk of data in my reference, cut and paste it so I can see what you are referring to.
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