Cherry tree leaves?

[Mark Reynolds]

@chaded, worry doesn't accomplish anything except stress you out. So yes, any worry is too much. Refocus worry into concern, and then act on concern. Much more productive and beneficial.

Animals have varying tolerance levels to the cyanide that is present in cherry trees/parts of. Several years ago there were a lot of unexplained horse deaths and abortions occurring in pastures occurring in Kentucky. That same year, there was a proliferation of tent caterpillars. The connection? The tent caterpillars were feeding on cherry trees in horse pastures and the horses were consuming grasses under the cherry trees where the caterpillars were and in the process were consuming caterpillars, caterpillar poop, shed caterpillar skins....all of which were products from the cherry trees. The problem was so bad until the cause was identified that horse owners were actually moving their horses out of state to save the lives of the horses as the cause was unknown.

The wilted leaves are much more palatable than fully intact leaves. The level of cyanide in either is about equal. Palatability increases leads to higher intake levels, thus more cyanide intake because of more volume intake, which translates into higher sickness/death rates.

It takes a quantity of cyanide to have an effect on an animal. The more cyanide, the bigger the effect. I suppose once a lethal amount is reached, the effect no longer increases (Sorry for those that don't like dark humor). A certain number of leaves can usually be, and typically are, ingested before any effects will occur or be noticed. Basically, a harmless level. That number is quite variable based on the animal and concentration of cyanide in the leaf.

I know I said levels of cyanide are about equal in wilted vs live leaves. They are. But, what IS variable is the amount of cyanide per leaf between trees and/or between time of year and growth stage of the tree. So, a set quantity of cherry tree leaves may be harmless in one instance, but deadly in another instance, and it has little/nothing to do if the leaves are wilted or not.

I'm wrong. The cyanide level is higher in the wilted leaves. Although, the wilted leaves are more palatable than the healthy leaves. So....the animals consuming the wilted leaves are getting more exposure from two aspects.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

The vet told us about the concentration of the prussic acid in the leaves and it is something that is more concentrated when the leaves are "damaged"... Cows can and will eat them direct off a branch and have little affect from them if they have had plenty of grass and are not starving... but once the branch is damaged, tree is down, etc... the leaves are very poisonous...
Cutting down as many of them as possible during the "dormant" time should be a priority... we constantly are cutting down or cutting them way back during the winter....
If the animals have plenty to eat, they usually will not bother them growing... but it seems once a tree comes down, they just "HAVE TO GO EAT THEM" ... go figure....

FAQs about Cyanide or “Prussic Acid” Poisoning in Ruminants | Ohio BEEF Cattle Letter

u.osu.edu

Summer Storms and Wild Cherry Trees | Ohio BEEF Cattle Letter

u.osu.edu

I hadn't ever put these two together. Geez. So sorry everyone. The purssic acid/cyanide produced in the wilted cherry leaves is the same thing produced in the frost damaged grasses. The following all have it in common:

Forage species that can contain prussic acid are listed below in decreasing order of risk of toxicity after a frost event:

• Grain sorghum = high to very high toxic potential
• Indiangrass = high toxic potential
• Sorghum-sudangrass hybrids and forage sorghums = intermediate to high potential
• Sudangrass hybrids = intermediate potential
• Sudangrass varieties = low to intermediate in cyanide poisoning potential
• Piper sudangrass = low prussic acid poisoning potential
• Pearl millet and foxtail millet = rarely cause toxicity

Species not usually planted for agronomic use can also develop toxic levels of prussic acid, including the following:

• Johnsongrass
• Shattercane
• Chokecherry
• Black cherry
• Elderberry

cherry trees | Search Results | Ohio BEEF Cattle Letter

u.osu.edu

This link is to several articles that tie these all together much better than I'm doing here.

 

[angus9259]

It's also my understanding that a newly downed cherry is fine. It takes some time for for the leaves to wilt and toxins to move to the leaf surface. Also rain will reduce toxicity by washing off the cyanide. But it's still all Russian roulette - I know what I'm doing this fall

 

[cowman82]

.... They need a large amount of leaves to take in a toxic dose.. . .. wrong. Yes.. Chaded.. I would be VERY worried.

According to Toxic Plants of North America by Burrows and Tyrl, as little as 1.2 to 4.8 pounds of wilted black cherry leaves could constitute a lethal dose for a 1,200 pound dairy cow. For a 180 pound sheep, the amount is only 0.18 to 0.72 pounds. The range in dosage is based on the HCN potential of the leaves

 

[Ebenezer]

I wonder if there is a way to collect it and feed to coyotes?

 

[chaded]

.... They need a large amount of leaves to take in a toxic dose.. . .. wrong. Yes.. Chaded.. I would be VERY worried.

According to Toxic Plants of North America by Burrows and Tyrl, as little as 1.2 to 4.8 pounds of wilted black cherry leaves could constitute a lethal dose for a 1,200 pound dairy cow. For a 180 pound sheep, the amount is only 0.18 to 0.72 pounds. The range in dosage is based on the HCN potential of the leaves

It appears his cattle are just fine? I've read that article and several others. I have also read all the stuff about johnsongrass and the horror stories of "my cows ate just one bite and killed over." Oh and the you don't want buckeye trees in your pasture where cattle can get to it or acorns and this and that. My goodness it's a surprise any cattle are left around here.

I'm not saying stuff can't happen but most of the time the cattle in these stories end up being just fine.

 

[cowman82]

hopefully you never experience it. hits me hard when i've been out and lost 20k in a day.

 

[kenny thomas]

Some good information posted.
Kill every cherry tree in the pastures, but do it in the winter. Spraying the stump with Remedy or something will prevent sprouting.
One good fact of rotational grazing is that you usually have a clean area to move them to if you have trees down.
If you have a cherry tree down spraying it with diesel fuel will both keep them from eating the leaves plus will dry the leaves up much quicker.

 

[Springfieldsimm]

Checked the cows tonight and still all good. And they didn't figure out yet the poly wire I ran isn't hot. Glad they respect it.

 

[Twisted]

I've been around wild cherry trees all my life, never seen them in great numbers but they aren't scarce. This is the first I have heard of them killing cattle, I guess because the cows had more and better things to eat than cherry leaves. But there is something else that has begun to move into our area that I also am not familiar with but have been warned about and that is poison hemlock. I'm not so much concerned about it in my pastures because I can control it there and as I stated before the livestock has much better things to eat, but what does concern me some is hay. I used to bale hay for my animals and had a commercial hay business once and baled 4000 rounds a year, but now I buy in hay. It bothers me some that one rogue bale could kill everything on my place.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

I've been around wild cherry trees all my life, never seen them in great numbers but they aren't scarce. This is the first I have heard of them killing cattle, I guess because the cows had more and better things to eat than cherry leaves. But there is something else that has begun to move into our area that I also am not familiar with but have been warned about and that is poison hemlock. I'm not so much concerned about it in my pastures because I can control it there and as I stated before the livestock has much better things to eat, but what does concern me some is hay. I used to bale hay for my animals and had a commercial hay business once and baled 4000 rounds a year, but now I buy in hay. It bothers me some that one rogue bale could kill everything on my place.

Your concern is well founded as the poison hemlock is quite deadly. At the same time, cows rarely will even give it a 2nd look, let alone eat it. The hemlock is common around here. I'll give 2 direct observations/involvements I've been part of with hemlock, and they are true extremes that are in completely opposite directions.

The first observation is of a pasture used for dairy cows, which are relatively rare in this county. The hemlock was an unusually dense stand, I'd say 2-3 thousand plants standing between 4 and 7 feet tall, and all the other vegetation (grass) was at a height of 3/4 to 1.25 inches tall. VERY overgrazed to say the least. 50-60full size cows in this pasture of 10-15 acres, at the most. The cows would not touch the hemlock.

The 2nd observation. 2 cows and a bull in a pasture that is about 5-7 acres in size. Forage a foot to 2 feet tall. My guess there were 3-4 hemlock plants in the pasture. Animals JUST INTRODUCED into the pasture the day before. Hemlocks were well browsed and the bull and one cow were dead by day #2.

My best guess is that the bull and cow 'sampled' the hemlock not because it was palatable, but because it was something new/different.

My guess is that it would be one rogue bale that would be damaging. As odd as it may sound, it could possibly be the case that if 75% of the bales were contaminated, the cows would avoid the hemlock like the plague. Then again, hay is potentially quite different in palatability than green, growing forage.

Poison hemlock tea was used to execute the Greek philosopher Socrates.

 

[cowman82]

I've been around wild cherry trees all my life, never seen them in great numbers but they aren't scarce. This is the first I have heard of them killing cattle, I guess because the cows had more and better things to eat than cherry leaves. But there is something else that has begun to move into our area that I also am not familiar with but have been warned about and that is poison hemlock. I'm not so much concerned about it in my pastures because I can control it there and as I stated before the livestock has much better things to eat, but what does concern me some is hay. I used to bale hay for my animals and had a commercial hay business once and baled 4000 rounds a year, but now I buy in hay. It bothers me some that one rogue bale could kill everything on my place.

last fall I just got done dozing around 10 acres.. turned the cows out in that field b/c I didn't even think about it. About 15 cows RAN, halfway across the field right to a dozed pile, and found a single cherry tree and start munching down. I only had a can of PB blaster with me so I ran them away and soaked it down good with it. That was a close call.

Keep in mid their are several varieties of cherry trees and the black cherry is the worst. I have every kind on this farm. I have had cherries on other farms I've owned and never had a problem either.

so don't think b/c they have a lot to eat that they won't consume them.

 

[Tomcolvin]

30?

I know this is true for goats. I didn't know cows could be in danger. I'll clear cut if I have show up. If goats eat them off the live tree it's ok, but if they wilt just the lease bit, it's trouble.

 

[Warren Allison]

I know this is true for goats. I didn't know cows could be in danger. I'll clear cut if I have show up. If goats eat them off the live tree it's ok, but if they wilt just the lease bit, it's trouble.

Same with horses. It is wilted leaves that are poisonous. Dead leaves in the fall are no problem, either.

 

[Walking W]

I've been around wild cherry trees all my life, never seen them in great numbers but they aren't scarce. This is the first I have heard of them killing cattle, I guess because the cows had more and better things to eat than cherry leaves. But there is something else that has begun to move into our area that I also am not familiar with but have been warned about and that is poison hemlock. I'm not so much concerned about it in my pastures because I can control it there and as I stated before the livestock has much better things to eat, but what does concern me some is hay. I used to bale hay for my animals and had a commercial hay business once and baled 4000 rounds a year, but now I buy in hay. It bothers me some that one rogue bale could kill everything on my place.

I live NW of Ft Worth and hemlock and black nightshade are the most problem here that I know about. Hemlock started out as an ornamental imported from England. Now it seems to be everywhere. This spring, I noticed more hemlock than ever in the bar ditches. One pasture near me is covered with it. There was even one trying to grow outside my back door. It's not just weed seed that's a problem in purchased hay.