Chain store RANT

[M5farm]

I didn't want to hijack SKy's thread. Using these chain stores Lowes / Home Depot / menards etc. is what has rolled up main street in America. These chains screw up a market place because they have no experts that can help the consumer and they think that matching or beating a price is customer service. they are competitive on commodity items but the avg GP on discretionary items are above 50%. That is why they advertise loss leaders because of the extremely high margins on other products. I shop there only when a privately owned business is closed and I have to have something to fix a problem. most people whether diy'r or a professional you have jobs planned out they can and will have your product on jobsite when you need it and will go the extra mile to continue to get your business. lastly the last time I check the contractors were not doing there work as charity and the mom and pop or private owned business does not have the buying power that the box stores do so they can match prices but when they do it is to survive and most of the time it very slim margins. as a contractor cut your price by 10% and see how long you stay in business. if we would support our local suppliers there buying power will increase and you can bet the prices will get better. and if you can't tell it pizzes me off when people only look at the bottom dollar and are not willing to pay more for piece of mind and service from a PROFESSIONAL.

 

[3LEGGED1]

I'm sorry to say that no such thing as loyalty anymore.if you are not competeing on prices, you losing market share. Now don,t get wrong I like the old builders supply house we used. But on a couple thousand $ order saving 10% makes me money. And we all know wether we want to admit or not. It all comes down to the dollar.sorry but that's the way is.

 

[M5farm]

I'm sorry to say that no such thing as loyalty anymore.if you are not competeing on prices, you losing market share. Now don,t get wrong I like the old builders supply house we used. But on a couple thousand $ order saving 10% makes me money. And we all know wether we want to admit or not. It all comes down to the dollar.sorry but that's the way is.

while I agree pricing has to be competitive. How much is your time worth picking up vs delivered. what about mistakes does the chain store come out and correct or do you go back to get it corrected. what about an expert in a particular field does the 8.00 an hour guy know windows or is he an order taker what about the guy selling roofing does he know the differences in the warranty does he offer solutions to problems you've never encountered. Professionals can charge more because they offer more. mr. and mrs. homeowner want a particular product at a fair price if the contractor offers them a choice price is not the main concern.

 

[Shanghai]

It's the way of the world
The big get bigger and the mom and pops fade away
In my world John Deere, Tractor supply, Atwood's and etc are taking over and driving the independents out of business
Most don't have the buying power, the inventory, product lines and etc to be competitive
There are a few in my travels that can and do
They join with others and form buying groups and stock up on inventory and try to stock everything people need and beat the competition on service and compete on price
But those are the exception, most just fade away
I hate to see a family businesses go out but it happens everyday
The big boys get bigger and are opening new stores everyday
I have a jd dealer that has 11 stores and employs good people, pays a good wage and their customers are treated fair
I can't say a bad thing about them, but they sell jd products and mine

It's just the direction we've been headed for awhile

 

[CottageFarm]

I really do get what you're saying M5. I try to buy locally when feasible. But it's not just about price. I would be willing to pay marginally higher prices, if all else is equal. And I wouldn't have too much trouble selling the concept to my clients either. We're not the cheapest contractor out there, either, but I'm still able to sell our services because we offer more than the guys who are cheap. You have to offer me more than just being local to get my business.
.
I use the chain store mentioned in the other thread for a number of reasons

1. Convenience. They have most of what need for most projects, and a lot of it is in stock. Specifying products takes a lot of time, more so if I have to work with 10 different suppliers to get what I need. Getting 75% or more of the materials for a job from one vendor saves me and my clients a lot of time.

2. Service. I get phenomenal service from them.

3. Price is nice. It's not everything, but it helps. On medium & large projects I can generally get a discount that substantially helps my bottom line. Every little bit helps.

4. Website convenience. I do a lot of shopping for preliminary bids online. Again it saves me time. Most of the locals don't have comprehensive websites

5. They still employ people. Real people who live here. And generally far more than the smaller businesses do.

There are really only two local places to deal with.
One is primarily lumber and millworks. They are very nice and their prices are fair,
but they don't have much of what I need and almost nothing in stock other than lumber.

The other has most stuff available. Nothing much in stock. Not even basic pre-hung interior doors. Most importantly their customer service is horrendous, pretty much non-existent really. (rant warning!) I needed some tile samples for the project we're on currently. It took 3 weeks and 4 phone calls just to get the samples! They just couldn't be bothered to get them ordered the first time and then actually follow up on the status and then actually call when they came in. I did not buy from them because they are unreliable. I won't have my projects delayed because my vendors won't do their job. (end rant :lol2: )

Anyway, so for me, speaking as a contractor, it's the total package that's going to get my business and loyalty. Here, that happens to be a big box chain store. They work hard for my business, so they get it.

 

[M5farm]

I respect that cottage farm. I had a customer today bitchin about how lowes messed up his order (roofing) he had to make several trips up there and he had to pick up the original order. I questioned why he didn't call me . I would have delivered the order on time if a mistake was made I personally drive out and correct it and pick up any excess material with no delivery fee or restock charge. His reply your a 1.00 a square high on shingles. People don't put a value on their time and it cost them money and they don't even know it. Lowes and HD are notorious for selling roofing below cost. While it is a win for the consumer it also drives the profit down for those of us that are specialty distributors trying to make a living. The margins on most construction material are slim when we get what we need for it. I can't count the Times a box store employee at the pro desk gave bad information to a contractor .

 

[CottageFarm]

Yep, I'm not gonna get the jobs that are price only. I Sometimes I feel bad for them when they inevitably
get screwed, but not really, since they were too stupid to look at anything but price in the 1st place.

Roofing is notoriously cut throat so I do sympathize.
My biz (remodel) not quite as much so. I have a much easier job in showing prospective clients why we're the better choice

I absolutely agree that nobody should ever,(as in NEVER) seek advice from the chains in general. Truthfully, not really most of the small suppliers either. Very few companies in the construction industry put any importance on properly trained/experienced employees anymore. They read the manuf. brochures on a product and just quote it back, sometimes correctly, more often not. But have very little understanding or experience with a product.

 

[wv mud river]

I really miss the old hardware stores.local guy that had everthing you needed.could tell you how to install things and the tools you needed to do the job. worth paying more

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

I really miss the old hardware stores.local guy that had everthing you needed.could tell you how to install things and the tools you needed to do the job. worth paying more

My father in law owned a small town lumber and hardware business for years. He was fortunate in that the nearest Lowes or Home Depot were a pretty decent drive away but he was aware that they did have a negative impact in his business and did lose sales to both of the big box giants.

 

[skyhightree1]

I see all points that have been spoken I also like going to my local feed store/hardware store and joking with the fellas and getting their knowledge which has developed over years and when you go to a box store people want to do their time and get out mostly some don't and actually care. Me being a contractor and as was said price matters I try to buy local but as someone said in my thread or this one some of the local guys are 100% higher than larger stores and if im in a competitive pricing situation I gotta do whats best for the business after all im in it to make $ not loose it. I love my hardware store which has many stores around here and if not mistaken is a ace co op or however that works I buy a ton of arborist ropes and supplies from them and had one bull rope fray while on one job the store manager drove 45 mins to my job site to give me the new rope no box store will do that.

 

[Aaron]

I only feel bad for those communities whose businesses lose to box stores in another town, as it takes away from the tax base. As far as box stores ruining small businesses, I don't buy it. The same thing was said when Wal-Mart came in this area. WM ended up hiring more workers than were lost from the small businesses and the number of small businesses that closed was negligible. Closures were due more to general attrition than the coming of WM. Every once in a while I go into one of these small shops and one thing sticks out compared to pre-WM days, fewer and more productive workers. Lot less mindless chit chat. In a lot of cases, the stores are run by the owners themselves, which, for the size of the store, is all that is really needed, and ever was needed. WM actually taught the smaller guys around here how to run a business.

 

[snake67]

I didn't want to hijack SKy's thread. Using these chain stores Lowes / Home Depot / menards etc. is what has rolled up main street in America. These chains screw up a market place because they have no experts that can help the consumer and they think that matching or beating a price is customer service. they are competitive on commodity items but the avg GP on discretionary items are above 50%. That is why they advertise loss leaders because of the extremely high margins on other products. I shop there only when a privately owned business is closed and I have to have something to fix a problem. most people whether diy'r or a professional you have jobs planned out they can and will have your product on jobsite when you need it and will go the extra mile to continue to get your business. lastly the last time I check the contractors were not doing there work as charity and the mom and pop or private owned business does not have the buying power that the box stores do so they can match prices but when they do it is to survive and most of the time it very slim margins. as a contractor cut your price by 10% and see how long you stay in business. if we would support our local suppliers there buying power will increase and you can bet the prices will get better. and if you can't tell it pizzes me off when people only look at the bottom dollar and are not willing to pay more for piece of mind and service from a PROFESSIONAL.

Well my friend - you have touched upon most of the reasons I usually buy my "stuff" from some of the local businesses.

It is the personal touch I appreciate the best.

Cheers

Bez

 

[backhoeboogie]

If I have no other choice, I will go to Wal-Mart. They'll sell you a chainsaw but they do not stock chains or parts for them. Same for most lawn equipment. There's a Stihl store in town doing a great business. Maw and Pa is what I seek. They are glad to see me when I come in the store and they hope I come back again and again.

 

[greybeard]

I try to do business with the local family owned lumber yard and hardware store, but their selection sucks and quality lumber isn't there either.
McCoys beats their prices and has better selection plus is a Priefert outlet, so that's where I usually go here. Not as big as Lowes/Home Depot, but not so small they can't make ya a good deal--and they will deal on more expensive items. Bought most of the electric and plumbing for my house there in 2009.

"At McCoy's, we spend Sundays building Family Values" means they are closed, so if do I need something on the Sabbath to pull the ox from the ditch, I do go to the smaller store.

 

[gimpyrancher]

As far as box stores ruining small businesses, I don't buy it. The same thing was said when Wal-Mart came in this area. WM ended up hiring more workers than were lost from the small businesses and the number of small businesses that closed was negligible.

You're lucky. Most places that acquire the large box stores loose the small downtown businesses. As for employees? They hire more people because they pay a low wage that qualifies their employee for food stamps. While the owners of those corporations make thousands of times the amount of money.

Add the low cost of their foreign products (loosing American Job), plus the Tax deals they get from local government to open the stores, plus the cost of welfare payments . . . . I'm sorry, I forgot, yup we save a lot buying from big box stores.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I always shop locally if I can't find it with them I go to Amazon and let UPS deliver.
I try at all cost to stay out of Wally World. There profit margin is huge and they don't pay their employees a livable wage.
Doesn't bother me that they move in and are more efficient than mom and pop as they provide more jobs for the community.
If they paid their employees a livable wage service would go way up. They put very little money back in the local economy,
just take it out. They are not like a power plant or other manufacturing that pays good wages
and pumps money back into the community to the service related jobs servicing the plant creating more jobs.

 

[cow pollinater]

Our local hardware store, which is always my first stop especially for anything equipment related, renovated and tried to match what the big stores were doing. They lost a bunch of money because they spent a ton on renovation and just about everyone that shopped there is saying they liked it better the way it was.
I don't care how much it costs, I like buying nuts and bolts and implement parts from people that have known me since I was a kid and I'm happy that my business supports them.

On my dairy route I have a constant flow of companies who hire just any old guy who can dump semen in a cow and try to come in and offer a better price. Other representatives with my company have the same pressure. What we hear time and again from customers who chase the lower price and then come BACK to us is that it's just not the same as having someone who understands them and their business that they can trust. They are willing to pay what it's worth and are happy that we are making money from them as they see it as a partnership instead of just their bottom line.

 

[Caustic Burno]

We are one of those geographical oddities here as we have an Ace Hardware, NAPA, O'Rielly's, Parker Lumber and a New Holland dealer.
Of course Wally World is here with a crap store. You are driving 60 miles to do any serious shopping or further.
It is hard to support the local economy when there isn't one.

 

[Brute 23]

Service is becoming a lost art. If people are good at it they are doing bigger things. Its an exception not the norm.

They put a big new gas station in where 59 meets 37. I travel through there multiple times a week. Walked in and had a Gatorade, sandwich, and a jug of water. Walked up to the counter and a lady waved me over to one of those self check out deals like at Wal-Mart and was trying to tell me how to use it.

I told here I would prefer if they would just check me out normally.

She told me that I they were really pushing them to teach people how to use the self check out.

I responded... that's cool but I would just prefer to do the regular deal.

She then said I had to use that one that they were not going to check people out. I just turned and walked off left my stuff on the counter.

They started hollering... Sir Sir we can get you here.

I walked back and while checking me out the regular way she makes a comment to me... You are going to have to learn to use new technology... as if I don't know how to operate the self check out... :lol2: :roll:

I told her flat out... I didn't come in here and pay $4-5 for diesel, $3 for a Gatorade, $4 for a sandwich, and $2 for water to have to check myself out and bag my own stuff. Plus half the time those things screw up and you end up waiting for some one with a code or some crap any ways.

Same thing at the bank. Had a lady tell me I needed to fill out my own deposit tickets and stuff. That's nonsense. I can hold my money in a sock drawer. I pay them to maintain the paper work that goes along with the transactions.

Im in a service business... it drives me crazy when I run across these people.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

I always shop locally if I can't find it with them I go to Amazon and let UPS deliver.
I try at all cost to stay out of Wally World. There profit margin is huge and they don't pay their employees a livable wage.
Doesn't bother me that they move in and are more efficient than mom and pop as they provide more jobs for the community.
If they paid their employees a livable wage service would go way up. They put very little money back in the local economy,
just take it out. They are not like a power plant or other manufacturing that pays good wages
and pumps money back into the community to the service related jobs servicing the plant creating more jobs.

How much should they be paid to say "how can I help you", and stick a can on a self?
Maybe the real problem is no one has pride in their work, no matter the pay?