Cellulosic Alcohol

[mnmtranching]

Speaking about the price of hay?

Cellulosic Alcohol is in the works, and not far off.

Do you think we [cattlemen] can compete with the subsidized ethonal plants? How much hayland will it take to support these plants?

 

[Earl Thigpen]

I was thinking about puttin in about 20 acres of switchgrass or other feed stock for an Ethanol plant but none around close enough to make it economical. Can't keep using corn. It uses more energy than it produces.

 

[somn]

It amazes me how all of the negative comments about ethanol produced from corn comes from oil producing areas that have never raised corn and couldn't tell you the first thing about the amount of energy used to produce it. The positive comments come from corn producing areas that actually know how much energy it takes to produce the corn. Knowbody cared how much energy went into producing the corn when it went into cheap cattle feed, the cheap corn flakes, everything else that was cheap made from corn. I'm betting that making wheaties used far more energy than they will ever produce. Sounds like a stupid argument when applying it to everything that uses energy.

 

[TheBullLady]

I've been reading a lot of articles lately about "alternative" products that can be used for ethanol. I was surprised the read about a lot of grasses that can be used! Seems to me a better solution! It will make the cattle producers much happier, that's for sure.

Don't understand the "wheaties" comment in the prior post. What am I missing? :roll:

 

[Tod Dague]

I've been reading a lot of articles lately about "alternative" products that can be used for ethanol. I was surprised the read about a lot of grasses that can be used! Seems to me a better solution! It will make the cattle producers much happier, that's for sure.

Don't understand the "wheaties" comment in the prior post. What am I missing? :roll:

I don't think it will make cattle producers any happier. You think hay is high now! :shock:

To make bio fuels work they need to find a true waste product, that is readily available, that will not take up current ag land, and has little or no market value.

I read an article not long ago that a company was planning on making Bio diesel from tallow. I could be wrong but this seems a better way to go.

 

[ArrowHBrand]

It amazes me how all of the negative comments about ethanol produced from corn comes from oil producing areas that have never raised corn and couldn't tell you the first thing about the amount of energy used to produce it. The positive comments come from corn producing areas that actually know how much energy it takes to produce the corn. Knowbody cared how much energy went into producing the corn when it went into cheap cattle feed, the cheap corn flakes, everything else that was cheap made from corn. I'm betting that making wheaties used far more energy than they will ever produce. Sounds like a stupid argument when applying it to everything that uses energy.

I think ethanol is a great product, but making it from corn is only a temporary thing. You can't sacrifice a main food and feed stuff to make energy, it just can't last. I'm not sure how many people realize that it takes four gallons of water to make one gallon of ethanol. A lot of places in this country are suffering drought conditions while these 110 million gallon ethanol plants are sucking the soil dry. Brazilian ethanol is so much cheaper because they make it from sugar cane and from sugar beets. Corn producers need to start preparing themselves for the down turn in the market once ethanol starts being produced from something other than corn.

 

[somn]

I've been reading a lot of articles lately about "alternative" products that can be used for ethanol. I was surprised the read about a lot of grasses that can be used! Seems to me a better solution! It will make the cattle producers much happier, that's for sure.

Don't understand the "wheaties" comment in the prior post. What am I missing? :roll:

I don't think it will make cattle producers any happier. You think hay is high now! :shock:

To make bio fuels work they need to find a true waste product, that is readily available, that will not take up current ag land, and has little or no market value.

I read an article not long ago that a company was planning on making Bio diesel from tallow. I could be wrong but this seems a better way to go.

They have been blending animal fat for atleast 5 years here in Minnesota. I will not ever buy that crap again. Nothing but problems even in the summer. I run 100% soy without any problem in the summer. Soydiesel is fine that Biodiesel crap they can keep.

 

[Frankie]

I've been reading a lot of articles lately about "alternative" products that can be used for ethanol. I was surprised the read about a lot of grasses that can be used! Seems to me a better solution! It will make the cattle producers much happier, that's for sure.

Don't understand the "wheaties" comment in the prior post. What am I missing? :roll:

I don't think it will make cattle producers any happier. You think hay is high now! :shock:

To make bio fuels work they need to find a true waste product, that is readily available, that will not take up current ag land, and has little or no market value.

I read an article not long ago that a company was planning on making Bio diesel from tallow. I could be wrong but this seems a better way to go.

Tyson is working on making a fuel from chicken fat.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/In ... ource.aspx

 

[Ryder]

I've been reading a lot of articles lately about "alternative" products that can be used for ethanol. I was surprised the read about a lot of grasses that can be used! Seems to me a better solution! It will make the cattle producers much happier, that's for sure.

Don't understand the "wheaties" comment in the prior post. What am I missing? :roll:

I don't think it will make cattle producers any happier. You think hay is high now! :shock:

To make bio fuels work they need to find a true waste product, that is readily available, that will not take up current ag land, and has little or no market value.

I read an article not long ago that a company was planning on making Bio diesel from tallow. I could be wrong but this seems a better way to go.

If they would start making it from tallow trees I sometimes think I could supply the whole world. :hat:

 

[ga. prime]

Economic profitability, plain and simple, should determine what if anything gets converted into ethanol. As of now, that isn't the case. Inequitable Federal subsidies are in play here, favoring corn over other products. If the Feds are going to subsidize ethanol, it should be paid per gallon produced from whatever source.

 

[ga. prime]

somn, it takes more energy to convert a given quantity of corn into ethanol than the resultant ethanol is capable of returning. But, the subsidy makes it profitable.

 

[ga. prime]

I look forward to the day when all this ethanol hoopla shakes out and a new age of harmony and balance is shared between man and nature.

 

[ga. prime]

OK, my son just walked in the room and told me that it takes 1 gallon of fossil fuel to make 1.3 gallons of ethanol from corn. Bear in mind that a gallon of gas has more energy than a gallon of ethanol. It takes 1 gallon of fossil fuel to make 4 gallons of ethanol from sugar cane. It takes 1 gallon of fossil fuel to make 10 gallons of ethanol from switchgrass. The list goes on.

Like Yogi Berra said "It's difficult to make predictions, especially about the future", but I predict that corn is doomed as a source of ethanol.

 

[mnmtranching]

The only reason corn ethanol works is because.

The majority of the public wants alternative energy.

And less dependence on Mid East oil.

It's political suicide for politicians to speak against ethanol.

The news media likes popular opinions.

Natural gas supplies most of the energy to fuel these plants.

Natural gas is a North American product.

Ethanol is helping to save rural communities.

Is good for the States economy.

The government won't have to make LDP payments in the foreseeable future, For all grains.

The high price of corn in general is good for American agriculture. [nobody really cares about animal agriculture]

The things that will kill corn ethanol is.

Little or no net energy gain.
Not a significant source of auto fuel.
All in all ethanol is a poor substitute for gasoline.
It will cause US food to increase to unacceptable levels.
Not as good for the environment as thought.
The general public will gradually be informed.
Politicians will go with the flow.
And media will [I'm not sure they're kinda nuts]

 

[Wewild]

Tyson is working on making a fuel from chicken fat.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/In ... ource.aspx

It's already being used to fuel boilers. The Government gives a nice tax credit for using it.

 

[somn]

somn, it takes more energy to convert a given quantity of corn into ethanol than the resultant ethanol is capable of returning. But, the subsidy makes it profitable.

Got any numbers to prove that or are you just repeating what you have heard?

 

[Wewild]

There are benefits to using renewable energy sources. They ain't replacing the fossil fuel supply fast enough to keep up with us.

 

[MikeC]

somn, it takes more energy to convert a given quantity of corn into ethanol than the resultant ethanol is capable of returning. But, the subsidy makes it profitable.

Got any numbers to prove that or are you just repeating what you have heard?

Your answer may be here somn:

http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_energy.html

Seems as though scientists might be divided by according to who pays for the research. :shock:

 

[somn]

Wewild I'm not sayin these ethanol plants are a good thing or a bad thing. I know they have taken away from my bottom line as a feedlot owner but as more plants are built in my surrounding area I will be able to get the byproducts cheaper than I can now it may be a wash in the end. The part I don't like to constantly hear is how they are such a negative energy producer. To read these reports and studies done by various people against ethanol only proves how far removed they are from modern agriculture. These studies use the entire amount of energy used to produce the fertilizer, truck the fertilizer, apply the fertilizer, plant the seed corn for the following years corn, then plant that years corn, spray the corn, produce the spray that was sprayed on the corn, cultivate the corn, harvest the corn, truck the corn to town, dry the corn, then they credit the entire energy used to produce the ethanol, truck the ethanol, the energy used in the production of the raw materials used to build all these plants. In effect they credit all the energy ever used that could be in any way linked to ethanol. I even seen a study done by one person who was crediting the energy used in the production of chickens that layed the egg that the construction workers ate before leaving for work to build a plant. These studies are all flawed nobody knows the true amount of energy used to produce anything anymore. Where does a person stop crediting one product and start crediting another. If a person really wanted to use there method of maddness when figuring energy used look at it this way. Because I feed ethanol byproducts to my cattle in the feedlot all the energy used to produce that byproduct of ethanol should now be crdited against the feedlot cattle. The ethanol plant used 0 energy the cattle as the end product will need to carry the entire weight of the energy consumed. Really a stupid argument when looked at that way ain't it?

 

[somn]

somn, it takes more energy to convert a given quantity of corn into ethanol than the resultant ethanol is capable of returning. But, the subsidy makes it profitable.

Got any numbers to prove that or are you just repeating what you have heard?

Your answer may be here somn:

http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_energy.html

Seems as though scientists might be divided by according to who pays for the research. :shock:

Thanks for proving my point Mike have a look at the Comparison of USDA and Pimentel Net Energy Balances. That man didn't have a clue.