cattle size

[uplandnut]

Having bought an assortment of different sized cattle to start my herd, I'm curious what some opinions are for larger cattle (1400lbs to 1700lbs) versus smaller cattle (1000lbs to 1400lbs)? I was told by one person his desire was to have calves that were 50% of the cows weight at weaning. Is this the actual ideal situation or just one persons opinion? I have noticed that the heavier weight cows don't seem to bring as much (price per pound), as there lighter counterparts when at bred cow sales. Just trying to decide the direction I want to go in. I do like the bigger cows.

 

[dun]

There isn;t a one size fits all I don;t think. I like 1200-1400, but have a few that will shade 1600. I'm more concerned with frame. I like a 5.5-6 FS, if that 6 happens to way 1400 or 1600 I really don;t care.

 

[bse]

If you like bigger cows, thats where you should be. My cows average 1450, weaning 50% of cow weight is ideal, will the bigger cattle do that all the time? No, but the 1000lb cows dont either. I cull first for fertility then productivity.

 

[Muddy]

I would be more concerned about the frame sizes than weight. 4-6 framed cows are what I want to sell marketable calves without losing money.

 

[uplandnut]

Glad to hear that I'm not going in the wrong direction. dun, I've heard frame size referenced on here before. How can I tell what the frame score would be, or is that something you just learn with time?

 

[Bigfoot]

I like a big cow. I big old long, deep, slab sided cow. I think their pretty. One that weighs 1400 pounds. I just like looking at them. There are better ways to manage a herd, but if not weaning a 550 pound calf, and having a calf every 12 months I don't keep it. The weaning weight usually gets the smaller cows, and in my experience the breeding back will sometimes get the bigger cow. A 1200 pound cow weaning a 600 pound calf would probably be more ideal.

 

[Brute 23]

It's not about the size of the cow that makes money, its how much she costs to operate. If you take what she costs you and divide it by the pounds of calf she produces you want a low cost per lb to produce. There are easy keepers and there arent... some look bad but produce a heck of a calf... some look great and produce a sorry calf. No way to know until you get them in production. Best you can do is know their lineage as a potential indicator.

 

[dun]

Glad to hear that I'm not going in the wrong direction. dun, I've heard frame size referenced on here before. How can I tell what the frame score would be, or is that something you just learn with time?

Here's a link to information about FS
http://www.unce.unr.edu/publications/fi ... /cl775.pdf

 

[True Grit Farms]

It's not about the size of the cow that makes money, its how much she costs to operate. If you take what she costs you and divide it by the pounds of calf she produces you want a low cost per lb to produce. There are easy keepers and there arent... some look bad but produce a heck of a calf... some look great and produce a sorry calf. No way to know until you get them in production. Best you can do is know their lineage as a potential indicator.

This is a good post, very true. Numbers can and will lie.

 

[coachg]

I have a good friend that raises commercial cattle. He always says my cows are too big and wasteful. Most of my girls are 1200-1400 lbs, his are 900-100. He says they eat less, raise calves that percentage wise ,equal bigger calves from bigger cows. Whatever size cows work for you are what you need to have. My cows are registered Black Angus and I hope to raise breeding stock to sale. Folks wanting to buy registered heifers and bulls want to see big cows ! What works for him suits him, what works for me suits me.

 

[Sd1030]

Was in a class today and they talked bout the whole having cattle wean calves that weighed half their body weight. I think the size is revelant to your end goal in some aspects.

 

[bird dog]

You need to fit your cow to your environment. In mine it seems to be in the 1000 to 1250lb range. I like a good crossbred that weighs 1100 and puts out a lot of milk. Weaning calves half their body weight is not to difficult at this weight on the average year but don't get to hung up on that ratio. The year to year difference in your forage quality can change that dramatically not to mention your bull. Also the age of the calf is a big variable.

Try this. Total weight of weaned calf divided by number of days old. This throws out all the low versus high birth weight arguments and gives you a true efficiency weight. What I have seem in my herd is the smaller cows under 950 lbs will have a smaller daily gain rate but the medium cows and the large cows run almost the same. My better winter calving cows will wean a calf gaining over three lbs a day as the calves start eating good as the Rye grass come on. Equal quality late summer/fall calves won't make but about 2 1/2 lbs per day.

Where are you located Uplandnut?

 

[Supa Dexta]

You have to remember a cow can drink 100 lbs of water in one go and/or drop 100lbs of calf and birth matter in a matter of minutes. So you have to have an avg weight when basing what her weight actually is.

 

[Nesikep]

Dun, I think your cows are about what my goals for size and weight are.
Bigfoot, 1400 lbs isn't that big, I have many over that, though it's not my goal. One 12 year old cow I have is about an 18-1900lb Frame 8 and she is a beautiful cow.

I don't like chasing fads, so I'm not going to even think about getting 900 lb mature weight cows for myself.. Smaller cows eat more PER BODY WEIGHT than large cows, and it's especially true in a hard winter, Small cows need more attention paid with bull selection as well.

For my situation, I found a Frame 5-6.5 at 1200-1500 lbs works out good.. Though I don't pay much attention to exact weaning weight to cow weight ratio, I do expect a bigger cow to raise a bigger calf.. Last year some of my best producing cows were the 1300ish lb ones with 625lb calves at 170 days.. I just need to get a better eye to see which calves will develop into those kinds of cows so I can have more of them. My mature cows can all handle 130 lb calves at birth if they need to, and I've never needed to assist one.

 

[bball]

It's not about the size of the cow that makes money, its how much she costs to operate. If you take what she costs you and divide it by the pounds of calf she produces you want a low cost per lb to produce. There are easy keepers and there arent... some look bad but produce a heck of a calf... some look great and produce a sorry calf. No way to know until you get them in production. Best you can do is know their lineage as a potential indicator.

Could not agree more...and something I actively track and use as a facet of culling criteria.

 

[dun]

some look bad but produce a heck of a calf... some look great and produce a sorry calf. No way to know until you get them in production. Best you can do is know their lineage as a potential indicator.

If at weaning the cow looks better than the calf you can bet she's a cheater. I expect a cow to lose a hundred pounds or more from after she calves until weaning. I'm always been amazed at how fast a cow will regain condition after her calf quits sucking.

 

[Supa Dexta]

Sent a cull cow to the sale barn a few weeks back. She was one of my boss cows, not my biggest - but getting up there. She weighed 1650. I'd have a couple old charx cows that would be bigger, but most are down in the 1300-1400 range. I have to run everyone thru the scales again some day and get an idea where I'm at nowadays.

Anyways that day at the sale she was one of the smaller cows there. Seen some walk thru the ring at over 2200! Now those are big cows. They didn't look out of proportion or anything. Just big solid square cows, wearing a lot of cover.

There's also no way to know how efficient your cows are on an individual basis without a lot of hands on work and some fancy equipment. Even hand feeding a cow by herself and weighing everything won't tell you as studies show that animals change their eating behaviour when not with their herd. Modern tests track how long they spend eating and get estimates of how much and how fast an individual eat whats in front of them.

 

[talltimber]

some look bad but produce a heck of a calf... some look great and produce a sorry calf. No way to know until you get them in production. Best you can do is know their lineage as a potential indicator.

If at weaning the cow looks better than the calf you can bet she's a cheater. I expect a cow to lose a hundred pounds or more from after she calves until weaning. I'm always been amazed at how fast a cow will regain condition after her calf quits sucking.

I have been fortunate in that most of my cows breed back quick. I put bulls in on Dec. 11 and my fall calves (13, one died), but two, were born in September. The other two were born in the mid to early Oct. I don't have any cows that get in bad condition while milking calves, some lean up a little, and yes they are turning out the top of each calf crop. I have one in particular that stays mud fat year round, although most all of them are in very good condition year round. I am also at about half stock, so I expect that has something to do with it?

I had a conversation with Dad a while back about it. He said exactly what you did, dun. He told me that if she's in better condition than her calf " you might want to keep an eye on her". I took that to mean that she has one strike against her already. A sore foot, or some other issue would move her up in the go-to-town line.

 

[Nesikep]

One of my 'seedstock' cows that does everything right isn't a small cow.. Probably Frame 7 and 1600lbs, she raises a heavy and good looking calf every year, stays in good condition doing it, and seems to be the first to leave the feed trough or lay down... Her daughter is the same, and I'll be able to give you a verdict on her first grand-daughter in 6 weeks when she calves.

Last fall I had a first timer that raised a very respectable bull calf, he was right up there with the herd average, but she lost a lot of condition doing it.. I weaned early and put her back out on pasture, and fed her with a group of smaller animals (the rest of the 2 year olds and the bred heifers) over the winter.. She's pretty impressive now, she grew a LOT and is in good shape to do it again..