carpenters, or wood people--some help please

[greybeard]

I built a double set of doors for a hay shed from treated 2x4s based on some double shop doors my brother in law has had hanging for nearly 15 years without any problems. His have been opened and closed daily for all that time, with the only difference being his were build with untreated 2xs, fresh milled at a small local sawmill. It's now closed and I had to buy treated #1 yellow pine lumber from the lumber yard. It, like all the treated lumber around here, was wet when I bought it. I am not a carpenter, and prefer to work with steel and welding, but gave this a try.
Each of the 2 doors is 8'tall X 68" wide covering an approximate 11 foot opening when both are closed against each other.
1. I built and hung one a couple weeks ago, same day I bought the lumber, then got busy with other stuff, then went on vacation last week with just the frame hanging--no sheet metal on it. I put the remainder of the lumber for the 2nd door outside during this time.
2. finally got back on it yesterday, built the other door frame and when I hung it, I found the first door frame had warped badly, bottom to top along the closing edge of the door frame--the vertical board opposite the hinged side. It is warped (bowed) 'inward' along the top 48" if that makes any sense, meaning the top edge of the door now sits in a couple inches further than the bottom or middle of the door. This means the two doors aren't going to mate up together when closed. The hinged edge is still perfectly straight and plumb.

I really don't want to pull that door down again and work on it, but it's going to be a pita to close the doors lke it is and keep wind from getting behind the doors if e get any tropical activity here.
My thinking is, that the diagonal brace (true 1"X6" treated "corral board") dried out since that door frame was exposed to full sun for over 2 weeks, shrunk and pulled the top left corner of the door. Since it is affixed very near the bottom hinge, it couldn't pull that so the give point was the top 1/2 of the opposite side's vertical board. (I'm hoping the 2nd door won't do the same thing, since it's lumber sat out in full sun for those same 2+ weeks) Maybe I can pull the brace board off, relieving stress and re fasten it before I put the sheet metal???
Thoughts on what caused it and how to fix it?

 

[M5farm]

If it was wet pressure treated lumber it has shrunk and caused the problem. Not much you can do about it now but use bracing. I would get a turn buckle and fasion a tensioner (like on a screen door) to but it back in correct square. FWIW if the lumber is not going to be exposed to the elemants its best to use untreated aand cured wood for these type doors. Hindsight is always 20/20 why didn't you just build a door with 1" square tube and with your metal experience it would have been easier and probably not as heavy

 

[M5farm]

I completely misinterpreted your dilemma. now that I see you problem get you a length of 2" angle iron and drill a hole in the center of the bow and put a piece of all thread thru it and get it snug every day give it a turn or 2. over a couple of weeks you can get it back straight. I have done this with 4x4 barn poles and straightened them back before

 

[greybeard]

I completely misinterpreted your dilemma. now that I see you problem get you a length of 2" angle iron and drill a hole in the center of the bow and put a piece of all thread thru it and get it snug every day give it a turn or 2. over a couple of weeks you can get it back straight. I have done this with 4x4 barn poles and straightened them back before

You don't think the diagonal pulled it?

I have some 3/16 X 1 1/2 angle iron I can drill and screw to that vertical 2x and will probably straighten it up,IF there isn't anything else stressing it.

That shed actually has 2 openings to it---on the other side, I did make the door frame out of steel, but not what ya recommended above. It was quick, easy, and cost me no more than the lumber since I had everything surplus to build it with except the sheet metal. Chop saw, 3 welds and done. Some "southern engineering" you might say. I'll get a picture of that later today.

 

[M5farm]

I completely misinterpreted your dilemma. now that I see you problem get you a length of 2" angle iron and drill a hole in the center of the bow and put a piece of all thread thru it and get it snug every day give it a turn or 2. over a couple of weeks you can get it back straight. I have done this with 4x4 barn poles and straightened them back before

You don't think the diagonal pulled it?you could remove the diagonal until you get it straight. The diagonal is only to keep the top left from sagging the bottom hinge should be attached to the frame and bottom right of the brace to carry the weight of the door.

I have some 3/16 X 1 1/2 angle iron I can drill and screw to that vertical 2x and will probably straighten it up,IF there isn't anything else stressing it.

That shed actually has 2 openings to it---on the other side, I did make the door frame out of steel, but not what ya recommended above. It was quick, easy, and cost me no more than the lumber since I had everything surplus to build it with except the sheet metal. Chop saw, 3 welds and done. Some "southern engineering" you might say. I'll get a picture of that later today.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Yellow pine will roll up and crawl away if you let the sun hit it. You have to cover it asap.

 

[greybeard]

Guess I better get door #2 covered today then. Thankfully, it's cloudy this morning.
Covering the bigger door with new shiny corrogated "tin" a few weeks ago on a clear hot day reflected every ray of Texas sun right back on me. Like being in a convection oven.

 

[hurleyjd]

You should have bought yellow wood. Just kidding. You can lay a piece of treated 2 x 4 that is straight out in the weather for a while and it will nearly warp enough and turn over. Yellow pine is nearly as bad. Spruce-fir is the better lumber to use and is not as apt to wrap. Lumber that has been quarter sawed is usually more stable takes more time so most mills just slab saw it. Get a piece of angle iron the length of the board and c-clamp it in place and pull the warp out let it cure like that before removing the clamps.

 

[Alan]

GB, this may be a pointless question, but how do you have your 2x4's? Meaning is they on edge so the plywood siding is screwed into the 2" (1.5") side or do they lay flat so the siding is screwed into the 4" (3.5") side? If the 2x4's are laying flat against the plywood siding they will warp as your illustration shows. I built some doors that sound just like the ones your building, I'll be happy to get a pic and post them if you like.

Alan

 

[greybeard]

Sheetmetal will be screwed to the 2" edge--well actually nowadays, the 1 1/2" edge.
I didn't know how to draw a 2 or 3 dimensional picture.
Not much of a shed, but too good to leave like it was before I fixed the roof last month and added a 3rd side to it. (A tree had fallen on it a few years ago and It was open all across the front and one side and was pretty useless so I decided to put some extra hay in it. My father had built it long ago to park a tractor in on one side and was going to make a feed room on the side that now has a full door.)
The offending door is the one on the far right. I'm going to add a couple more horizontal members in today to screw the corrugated sheet metal to. After seeing how crappy the stuff is nowadays, it's going to need the extra support.

And, in case someone wants to throw some $ away instead of spending time....
I already had some hay in the left side, so I needed to quickly make a door to replace the 10X5 gate I had across that side, so the west wind didn't blow rain in on the hay. That tube gate had come from my cow pen. When I first built the pen, I used 2 10' gates as dividers just behind the sorting gate, but soon found the econo gates were too light and replaced them with bull gates. Since I don't have any other gateways narrower than 12' wide, that left me with 2 excess 10' gates I didn't really have a use for.
I got to looking at the gates and figured I could turn one upside down, stick some pipe down inside the end tubes, chop 6" off the height of the other gate and mate the 2 gates together and weld 'em up. Took me about 1 hr to do it and hang the thing, then use self tapping R panel screws, just attach the corrugated tin. I stuck a piece of 3/4" all thread in the center tube and welded it in too.

 

[M5farm]

WHY Didn't you make the other side like the bottom picture?????????????????????????????????
those gates arnt but 50 bucks a piece or so. I would think you have that much in PT 2x4's

 

[melking]

I completely misinterpreted your dilemma. now that I see you problem get you a length of 2" angle iron and drill a hole in the center of the bow and put a piece of all thread thru it and get it snug every day give it a turn or 2. over a couple of weeks you can get it back straight. I have done this with 4x4 barn poles and straightened them back before

I do this on a regular basis and it works like a charm. I also sometimes use a cable and a come along when the angle iron won't fit.

 

[cowgirl8]

Awesome idea using gates for big doors.....

 

[greybeard]

WHY Didn't you make the other side like the bottom picture?????????????????????????????????
those gates arnt but 50 bucks a piece or so. I would think you have that much in PT 2x4's

That, is a question I've asked myself several times even today, but the side with the double doors is wider than the 10' side and not wide enough for a 12' gate to fit in. It's a little more than $50 each. Those are Tuf-Mac gates, Preifert makes them for McCoy's Lumber so they aren't as cheap as some of the other brands. Best thing about them is that they are all exactly the same so the tubes lined up perfectly with each other. Don't try it with a cheap Chinese pair of TSC gates.

 

[Alan]

GB, now that I see your pic I feel I know the problem, your frame work is way too light for the size of door. The panels are a great idea, I'm not going to try to sound like I know what I'm talking about, but did spend several years building houses and other buildings, and kept using that knowledge through the years. If you reinforced the frame work and backed it up with heavy hinges it would have been fine. With that said, I don't have a clue about your pine wood,nor the cost of your project, we use fir. Panels may have been cheaper in the long run. I would have used at least twice as much frame work for the doors than you did, no offense just my thoughts. :tiphat:

Alan

 

[greybeard]

twice as much lumber

You would have used 4x8s for the frame?

 

[Alan]

Or even 6x12's.


The panels you have will work great, I may even be a bit of over kill for the door. I was saying you didn't have enough "framing" of 2x4's for the door. But you have the problem solved.

 

[greybeard]

I am considering doubling the footers and headers, putting the additional boards 'inside' the sides if that makes any sense, and 2 more spaced out horizontals to screw the corrogated to. Went and looked at b-i-l's doors again last evening. His are 60"w X 96"h--3 pairs of doors and he said they've been up over 20 years now. Made exactly like I made mine except he used a 2x4 for the diagonal.
I was able to pull the warp with a 8' long piece of angle iron--about half of it anyway. I'll have to live with it.
I used to say things need to last a lifetime. Nowadays, I only care if they last MY lifetime, which probably won't be long.