Cannot detect heat

[2barmcattle]

The vet has had a cow of ours for 6 weeks. Has tried Lut. twice and CIDR. Still cannot detect her in heat in order to AI. Why??
She has had 2 calves so far without a problem being bred by a bull. First time to be AI'd. First time this vet has AI'd for us.

Any ideas?????

Thanks,

 

[dun]

Silent heat's if he's sure she is actually cycling. Timed AI is about all that's left to try

 

[TexLonghornRanch]

Toss a Steer in the pen, he will tell you if she is cycling.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I would "assume" the vet has palpated her after each injection and he should know whether or not she has responded. So, if she is not building & sluffing a CL, than she is anestrous (sp? - not cycling) How long has it been since she calved?

 

[jkwilson]

We've had cows that just didn't seem to want to come into an artificial heat. Had one last year that we used the CIDR protocol on three times and each time she showed no signs of heat, and when the vet came to palp her for an embryo he said the CL wasn't good. Fortunately we had another cow on the protocol the third time as a backup, and she had been riding everything that moved and a few things that didn't, and she took.

When all else fails, turn her out with a bull. He'll show interest well before she'll stand. If you can put her close to the house, they aren't hard to catch coming in. We have a pasture in front of the house that is great for watching them.

 

[bigbull338]

some cows just wont come into visable heat for AI breeding.even if you sync them.you wont see them in standing heat.if i was you id expose her to a bull.an forget trying to AI her.

 

[2barmcattle]

Jeanne - Simme Valley .........she has a July calf w/her right now. (To answer your question).

Thanks!!!

 

[CWT Angus]

Here's a thought........
So, she is at the vets with other cows she doesn't know which makes her the low man ( or woman) on the pecking order. What was her ranking at your house? Many younger and /or less "boss" cow types will not show heat when around cows they are intimidated by. For example it is likely that your cow may not showing heat due to her rank in the new group.
I had that happen this year w/ a 2 yo cow who is definitely on the lower end of the order. She wouldn't show to anyone here, but when I dropped her in with a bull, he bred & settled her right away. She showed heat & was settled to AI on her 1st calf, when she was in with a bunch of yearlings.
Just a though- based on what I went through this year.
If she were mine at this point I would get her a real boyfriend instead of a frozen one & just get her bred.

 

[novatech]

Here's a thought........
So, she is at the vets with other cows she doesn't know which makes her the low man ( or woman) on the pecking order. What was her ranking at your house? Many younger and /or less "boss" cow types will not show heat when around cows they are intimidated by. For example it is likely that your cow may not showing heat due to her rank in the new group.
I had that happen this year w/ a 2 yo cow who is definitely on the lower end of the order. She wouldn't show to anyone here, but when I dropped her in with a bull, he bred & settled her right away. She showed heat & was settled to AI on her 1st calf, when she was in with a bunch of yearlings.
Just a though- based on what I went through this year.
If she were mine at this point I would get her a real boyfriend instead of a frozen one & just get her bred.

This may or may not be because of the pecking order.
I took two to a sexed semen place a couple of years ago, as they advised. They never could get either to cycle. They had all the latest tech. and used everything they could find to bring them in. Over $1000 later I picket them up and both came in within a month. They were both AI'd and both took on the first go round. Some cattle just don,t like to leave home.
The less upset the cow is the more success you are likely to have.
My advice is to observe or get a spotter bull and haul them to the vet within 12 hours of standing. Or better yet take a course and do it your self.

 

[2barmcattle]

Here's a thought........
So, she is at the vets with other cows she doesn't know which makes her the low man ( or woman) on the pecking order. What was her ranking at your house? Many younger and /or less "boss" cow types will not show heat when around cows they are intimidated by. For example it is likely that your cow may not showing heat due to her rank in the new group.
I had that happen this year w/ a 2 yo cow who is definitely on the lower end of the order. She wouldn't show to anyone here, but when I dropped her in with a bull, he bred & settled her right away. She showed heat & was settled to AI on her 1st calf, when she was in with a bunch of yearlings.
Just a though- based on what I went through this year.
If she were mine at this point I would get her a real boyfriend instead of a frozen one & just get her bred.

She is definately low on the pecking order at home. He is going to try one more time and I think I will bring her home.

 

[CWT Angus]

Bingo- considering that, I would definitely bring her home. Depending on how much semen you want to invest in her you might try Ai'ing her a couple of times. Rather than waiting for her to show heat. Like maybe @ 48 hours, plus a shot of cystorellin (sp?) then again the next day. I haven't had good luck waiting & time breeding on the later end of that such as past 72 hours.
I had a cow this year who is the absolute most timid & shy thing on the place, who I absolutely had to get bred, it was getting on way too late in the year. Of course the only other cow who was open & needed to by cycled & bred was the boss cow of the herd. I know her well enough to know there is no way she will go anywhere near that old girl, much less jump her. She showed absolutely no signs of heat & we bred her as desribed above.... she's due in April. Good luck with your cow. Sometimes we humans make it harder than it needs to be, or think too much into it. Is it possible for you to live cover her?

 

[2barmcattle]

Time to introduce her to 'Goosebumps'.

Thanks to ALL!!!!

 

[Tod Dague]

When we were flushing our two matriarchs we had a hard time detecting heats. Neither of them were interested in the other. We added a few more cows and were able to detect. Doubt it will help ,but there you go.

 

[TxSimbrahShower]

She's had two shots of Lut in 6 wks? We were told by an embryologist(sp?) not to try to bring them in back to back. If you miss the cycle on the first Lut shot, let them have a natural cycle before you Lut them again. If not, you could mess their natural cycles up.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

She's had two shots of Lut in 6 wks? We were told by an embryologist(sp?) not to try to bring them in back to back. If you miss the cycle on the first Lut shot, let them have a natural cycle before you Lut them again. If not, you could mess their natural cycles up.

Possibly you misunderstood. Lut is designed to be give at 11 day intervals to "group" up your cattle for sync.
And, most here misunderstand. If this cow is at the vets, he should be able to palpate the cow at any stage of shots/cidr and KNOW if she is cycling!! It doesn't make any difference if she has a silent cycle or not - HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO TELL!

 

[dun]

She's had two shots of Lut in 6 wks? We were told by an embryologist(sp?) not to try to bring them in back to back. If you miss the cycle on the first Lut shot, let them have a natural cycle before you Lut them again. If not, you could mess their natural cycles up.

Possibly you misunderstood. Lut is designed to be give at 11 day intervals to "group" up your cattle for sync.
And, most here misunderstand. If this cow is at the vets, he should be able to palpate the cow at any stage of shots/cidr and KNOW if she is cycling!! It doesn't make any difference if she has a silent cycle or not - HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO TELL!

That was the point I was trying to make, you just put it more succinctly

 

[2barmcattle]

Kind of where I was at with the original question. This is my first time A.I.'ing my cows so I was not that sure what all could be done. I know he has palpated her and....... maybe I need to ask him more questions.

Thanks!!!! You all are a HUGE HELP!!!!

 

[TxSimbrahShower]

She's had two shots of Lut in 6 wks? We were told by an embryologist(sp?) not to try to bring them in back to back. If you miss the cycle on the first Lut shot, let them have a natural cycle before you Lut them again. If not, you could mess their natural cycles up.

Possibly you misunderstood. Lut is designed to be give at 11 day intervals to "group" up your cattle for sync.
And, most here misunderstand. If this cow is at the vets, he should be able to palpate the cow at any stage of shots/cidr and KNOW if she is cycling!! It doesn't make any difference if she has a silent cycle or not - HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO TELL!

Well not sure how everyone else uses it, but, the majority of ppl that we deal with AI'ing and embryo implanting that do it for a living, use Lut to bring them in to AI or implant. Not just to sync them up.

As far as messing up their natural cycles by making them cycle twice in a roll, we have a heifer that took back to the breeder to have AI'd, (not Simbrah) he gave her a Lut when she got there, missed the cycle, gave her another shot, then AI, the two shots back to back without the natural cycle inbetween, shut her completely down. Ended up having to wait a few months to see if she would start natural cycles again on her own, didn't. Ended up giving her a different shot, stronger, that started her cycling again. Currently, she is 6 months bred.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Hmmm - well, to begin with, I wasn't trying to IMPLY that Lut was only used for sync. From it's inception, Lut instructions have been to give two shots 11 days apart (when trying to Sync cattle). Using this method, a % of cattle will respond to the first shot and than again to the 2nd shot.
This system has been used for many years, with no "ill" effect. There are ALWAYS exceptions when dealing with "mother nature". Maybe the female you are talking about became systic, many possible explainations - possibly due to the two shots - or maybe not.
Some cattle can get messed up from just one shot of any kind of hormones.

 

[novatech]

Kind of where I was at with the original question. This is my first time A.I.'ing my cows so I was not that sure what all could be done. I know he has palpated her and....... maybe I need to ask him more questions.

Thanks!!!! You all are a HUGE HELP!!!!

I think you need to ask why/if you want to sync. You are better off with a natural cycle and they should all come in within 21 days of each other. Close observation or a spotter bull work great.