Calving order - heifers first or cows first?

[SRBeef]

I've heard it said you should have the heifers calve ahead of the cows. So I put a couple heifers in with the bull a couple weeks ahead of the cows.

Had the first heifer calve last Thursday. Nice healthy calf at first but evidently heifer didn't feed it. Calf died. I'm 600 miles away. Neighbor says heifer cleaned her calf and appeared to have a good bag but just didn't work with this calf to get him to suck. Calf died Saturday.

Heifer didn't seem to show much interest in the calf or protective instinct. Definitely something I could have addressed if I had been there.

Have not had this problem in two previous calving seasons but then had them all calving together, heifers and cows. Both years have had experienced cows calving ahead of heifers. No problems.

For an absentee herd is it maybe better to have cows calve first or at least at the same time as the heifers to teach them the ropes? Or should this BWF heifer have been hamburger?

Another difference this year is that all previous calves have been out of Hereford cows and heifers. Is the BWF heifer (Hereford dam, Angus sire) just less likely to be able to calve and start nursing her calf without attention of some sort? Jim

 

[Oldtimer]

I vote hamburger...I calve the heifers a couple of weeks before the cows- and they better have the maternal instinct to handle it bred in-- or they go to Mickie D's....

 

[SRBeef]

Agreed. Thanks. Next year I may actually try the reverse and have the cows start calving a week AHEAD of the heifers.... This one is hamburger though. No second chances. Jim

 

[3waycross]

Agreed. Thanks. Next year I may actually try the reverse and have the cows start calving a week AHEAD of the heifers.... This one is hamburger though. No second chances. Jim

How do you know there wasn't something wrong with the calf?

It may not be her fault.

 

[KNERSIE]

Although I get the theory why heifers should calf first, I just don't see sense in it in my situation. The reason why I calf when I do is to hopefully guarantee decent BCS at breeding as well as a rising plane of condition, calving earlier means the first calvers are more likely to lose more condition before the breeding season making them more likely to actually start cycling later. If my fodder flow situation was different, it probably would have made sense if all your replacements were born within a couple of weeks from each other.

In my case my breeding season is 66 days long, if I retained a heifer born towards the end of my breeding season and expose her to the bull 3 weeks prior to my cows' breeding season it means that I am running her with a bull at 11 1/2 months of age, it simply isn't practical outside university experimental farms.

 

[dun]

We calve them all at the same time. Depnding on the weather in June our calving season usually runs around 45-60 days, frequently 30 or less

 

[KNERSIE]

We calve them all at the same time. Depnding on the weather in June our calving season usually runs around 45-60 days, frequently 30 or less

Yep, unfortunately nature plays a bigger role than the academics think.

In my case, especially with the commercial herd, the terrain plays a big role, as the breeding "pasture" is a few 100 acres with sparse grass and most of it almost a forrest.

 

[Double R Ranch]

We calve them all at the same time. Depnding on the weather in June our calving season usually runs around 45-60 days, frequently 30 or less

Same for us. All at the same time. Except we calve the majority of the herd during the end of Feb.-April for the ones that didn't take the first time. Usually done mid march. We got great bcs's and lots of green grass for the calves until weaning. Tried to breed heifers first but it was just to much of a headache and if they can't perform with the rest then they are out of here. A bit strict but it works for us.
Double R

 

[dun]

We calve them all at the same time. Depnding on the weather in June our calving season usually runs around 45-60 days, frequently 30 or less

Same for us. All at the same time. Except we calve the majority of the herd during the end of Feb.-April for the ones that didn't take the first time. Usually done mid march. We got great bcs's and lots of green grass for the calves until weaning. Tried to breed heifers first but it was just to much of a headache and if they can't perform with the rest then they are out of here. A bit strict but it works for us.
Double R

We start calving as soon as the weather is usually starting to have fewer nasty surprises. That
s the end of Feb. I can;t see postponing breeding cows that are cycling just so the heifers could calve first. Our standard start date for AI is the 24th of May but if somone is in a few days earlier we go ahead and breed her. The bull gets turned in with his harem the 24th. The cows that I would like to be bred AI get turned into him a week after breeding, the cows I want[/] bred AI are kept up till their next cycle, thern turned in with him a week after the second service or a week after they'v missed their second cycle. The late calvers the next year (luckliy we haven;t had any for a few years) find themselves a new home along with their calf.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Knersie, your math doesn't seem to work for me.
I have a 63 day calving (42 AI & 21 bull). So we calve 1-25 to 3-25 (breed 4-15 - 6-15 "about"). If I have a heifer born 3-25, she will be almost 13 months of age at breeding.
The concept of breeding heifers first is because it takes them longer to cycle back compared to a cow. So if hfr calves first, they have a longer time to STAY in your window of calving season.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

SR - sorry to hear that. I know you originally wanted to just ship the BWF heifers.
Actually, a crossbred hfr should calve easier & have more mothering ability according to hybrid vigor "rules". Calf may have been backwards with a hard labor, calf born weak or just too cold & a heifer doesn't stimulate her calf quite as vigorous as a COW. Never know.
I personnally don't think WHEN they calve will make any difference. I do not think they "learn" by watching. It's either "built-in" or not.

 

[ANAZAZI]

My reason to calve all at once is that this is the time I check on the cattle most frequently. I do not wish that this period becomes too long. Even if bulls stay with the herds for a long time, most calve in a short time. I rather have a cow calve late; and sell her with the calf to someone else, than an open cow that is just a cull. If they lose the calf, they are culls, whatever the reason
Most of the time the heifers and the cows are in different breeding pastures; with different bulls, as I like to make the first calving easier on them. I let bulls out at the same time, but heifers tend to start calving a week or so earlier than the cows due to the gestation period. Cattle can not in my experience learn about maternal behaviour from others. (They do however gain experience trough their own life)

 

[SRBeef]

Agreed. Thanks. Next year I may actually try the reverse and have the cows start calving a week AHEAD of the heifers.... This one is hamburger though. No second chances. Jim

How do you know there wasn't something wrong with the calf?

It may not be her fault.

All I know, since I never saw calf alive, is that my very experienced neighbor said he saw the calf up and around looking normal from the road as he passed by.... Not definitive but in any case the heifer did not produce a live healthy calf and I don't really care why, as long as it is not mostly my fault.

If it is definitely my fault I might give her a second chance. The fact my neighbor says the calf was up and around at first tells me that it is probably not my fault. If the calf was dry, it should have nursed and survived. jmho. Jim

 

[Oldtimer]

The reason I like calving heifers first- is I like to synchronize them- and breed them so they are supposed to calve over a 5 day period- and get it over with because they are the only ones I watch...Cows calve on their own (unless weather is terribly nasty)...That also frees up barn and corral room for older cows calves if the weather is bad and I have to bring any in to warm up....
Only problem is- they don't always follow the rules- and the first ones started calving 12 days early- and I'm sure I'll have a few drag ons that didn't get bred AI right away- but they will be pretty much on their own too...

 

[KNERSIE]

Knersie, your math doesn't seem to work for me.
I have a 63 day calving (42 AI & 21 bull). So we calve 1-25 to 3-25 (breed 4-15 - 6-15 "about"). If I have a heifer born 3-25, she will be almost 13 months of age at breeding.
The concept of breeding heifers first is because it takes them longer to cycle back compared to a cow. So if hfr calves first, they have a longer time to STAY in your window of calving season.

Lets assume a gestation of 9 months and 10 days. Breeding season of 66 days.

Do you agree that the oldest heifer will be 14 months and 20 days at the start of the next breeding season? The youngest heifer will be 2 months and 5 days younger than the oldest heifer making her 12 months and 15 days. If you breed heifers a month earlier than mature cows will make the youngest heifer at the start of the heifer breeding season 11 months and 15 days.

 

[LazyARanch]

Jim,

sorry to hear of your loss! I know how conscientious you are about your cattle.

I also know how tough it is when you try to do all the right things and you just CAN'T be there 24/7.
I know you'd rather be, I sure know WE would rather be but other obligations do factor in.

We depend on family a lot to help us out, most of the time it works great but every now and then.... :roll:

anyway, best wishes on the rest of your calving season. :tiphat:

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Knersie, I knew better than to question you, but---- anyway, yes your math is correct.
For us, I usually start 1 week ahead which really doesn't amount to much come calving time. Just like to be "fresh" when the majority of heifers calve. So, yes, if I had a heifer born the last week in calving, she could be around 21 months of age at calving.

 

[KNERSIE]

Knersie, I knew better than to question you, but---- anyway, yes your math is correct.
For us, I usually start 1 week ahead which really doesn't amount to much come calving time. Just like to be "fresh" when the majority of heifers calve. So, yes, if I had a heifer born the last week in calving, she could be around 21 months of age at calving.

Jeanne, environment is the limiting factor in my situation, that is why I said in my first post on the subject that if my fodder flow situation was different it might have worked to a degree.

You could say I have a gripe against experimental farms run by universities, although they do some good work the vast majority of the information sent out isn't applicable outside the very well controlled environment of the university farm.

 

[hillsdown]

Mine calve together, but I like to have a few cows to calve first so the heifers can see how it is done ,where they should calve, the straw pack not the snow, and how to clean the calf off asap and get it drinking etc.

I lost a calf this year and I blamed the dam (heifer) for her getting sick and was ready to set wheels under her that very day ,when it ended up being an internal pre existing condition that the calf had died from. Calf was up and looked healthy right after birth ;but you cannot see what is going on inside them.

 

[Beef Man]

I/m just like Oldtimer and for pretty much the same reasons. Get the majority of the heifers done and out with their calves to pasture. They stay seperate untill they are 3's this way we can give them a little more attention as they spend their first year as mothers. After all they can ,sometimes, take a little longer getting to breed back,they are supposed to be still growing,they are changeing teeth and if we get alate storm its much easier to give them a little extra feed and care when needed. As for the heifer in question a baldy heifer should be every bit as good and I would expect her to be a better mom than the straight bred's. I know this sounds awfull comeing from a Hereford breeder,but a genuine red or black baldy is the supreme produceing cow on the prairie.