Calving issue

[beltex]

Since December I've lost 2 cows and 3 calves at birth.
All three of the cows were calving bred to club calf bulls. The calf's birth weight on average was 120 lbs.
The first cow was a C section and they found her to have hardware in her.
Her calve was dead inside of her and she died a few days later.
The second cow had a backward calf in her and a day after she had him she died and released a tub of water though her mouth.
The calf lived but I put it last month because the calf had a spinal problem and had a pulse of 130.
A week ago we pulled another one. The cow is okay, but the calf was dead in her. It was a heifer calf, early and weighed 115.
Of all three I never saw a water bag out or feet on none of them.
The water bag must be popping inside the cow.
Any guess causing the water bags not to come out?
The mother's are 1400 lb. Charolais cows. They have had club calves before.
TIA

 

[Taurus]

Was their birth a long process?

 

[1982vett]

Since December I've lost 2 cows and 3 calves at birth.
All three of the cows were calving bred to club calf bulls. The calf's birth weight on average was 120 lbs.
The first cow was a C section and they found her to have hardware in her.
Her calve was dead inside of her and she died a few days later.
The second cow had a backward calf in her and a day after she had him she died and released a tub of water though her mouth.
The calf lived but I put it last month because the calf had a spinal problem and had a pulse of 130.
A week ago we pulled another one. The cow is okay, but the calf was dead in her. It was a heifer calf, early and weighed 115.
Of all three I never saw a water bag out or feet on none of them.
The water bag must be popping inside the cow.
Any guess causing the water bags not to come out?
The mother's are 1400 lb. Charolais cows. They have had club calves before.
TIA

Different bull?

 

[beltex]

On birth a very long process.
On sires all connected to Heat Wave. But all these cows have had them before.
On nutritional SE Texas is loaded with grass, maybe that's part of it.
But getting a water bag would help a lot.
Also they never went into a labor position trying to have the calf.

 

[Taurus]

Did the cows had trouble with birthing calves in the past, beside the one with backward calf? I had a first backward calf this year, the cow do not show any water bag but the calf was already dead by the time I chute the cow up.

But it shouldn't be any long process of birthing if the two of these cows had calves in the past.

 

[beltex]

All three of the cows had the same type of calves for years.
And never a calving problem.
On sires they were Heat Wave 5, Monopoly, and Alabama Slammer. The cows were all AI'ed.
They never showed no interest in calving like a normal pregnancy. They laid around like a normal cow. The first and second cow were given shots to make them have a calf. The third calved at 283 days on her own with help.
The sires above are carriers of the TH gene.

 

[Chris H]

A tail first calf often will die before engaging in the birth canal. Without pushing into the birth canal there's really nothing to burst the water bag. We had one I caught in time that the vet delivered alive this spring, but the heifer sustained an internal injury and died a couple days later.

We had a large Maine cow a few years ago that never went into labor normally. The calf just never moved up into position so the cow never got down to business with calving. By the time I decided to have the vet check her the calf was dead.

I had another cow last spring that was up & down instead of calving. I got her in and discovered the calf was upside down.

Bad presentations can cause the calf to die before you see much in the way of the cow calving. Did your vet have any suggestions?

 

[beltex]

Yes the vet made a suggestion like sometimes when it rains it pours. Go years and never have a problem and when they do they come back to back.
Your suggestion of the calf not getting fully in the birth canal to push the water bag out makes sense.
The last calf had a front foot turned under trying to come out.
More testing might help, but it probably wouldn't prove definite.
Law of averages usually average out.

 

[Chris H]

I'd go with what the vet said. Testing might tell you what you don't have, but I bet it won't tell you the reason for the calving problems.