Calves on Grass

[Brute 23]

I was wondering what kind of percentage of body weight a #300-#500 calf consumes as compared to what a #1000 cow consumes grass wise?

We really cut back on some cattle last year and "they" are wanting to buy some calves and turn them out on the assumed excess grass we will have this year.... assumed grass. :secret: I know roughly how many mommas we could run in a good year so I am trying to get a compareson to know how many "extras" we can handle.

The grass is just native pasture. Not totally sure that we will buy that small either, just using that as an example because we have some calves in that range on the ground. Figured it would hurt to buy in that range so the can all go together hopefully. Need to do some research and find a soft spot, I guess. This is my first stop, I will be talking to the auction barn, a guy I use to work for who grass fed steers for people, and any one else I can find probably. Any help is appreciated. :help:

 

[kenny thomas]

3-300lb or 2-500lb should eat close to what a 1000lb cow would eat. No matter what size it will eat about 2.5-3% of its body weight in grass.

 

[Brute 23]

Thanks. I wondered if it was proportional.

 

[dun]

The problem is that unless you have some spectacular grass those smaller calves will require more then they can get form grass. At best you will end up with pot bellied calves at worst pot bellied stunted calves

 

[TexasBred]

I was wondering what kind of percentage of body weight a #300-#500 calf consumes as compared to what a #1000 cow consumes grass wise?

We really cut back on some cattle last year and "they" are wanting to buy some calves and turn them out on the assumed excess grass we will have this year.... assumed grass. :secret: I know roughly how many mommas we could run in a good year so I am trying to get a compareson to know how many "extras" we can handle.

The grass is just native pasture. Not totally sure that we will buy that small either, just using that as an example because we have some calves in that range on the ground. Figured it would hurt to buy in that range so the can all go together hopefully. Need to do some research and find a soft spot, I guess. This is my first stop, I will be talking to the auction barn, a guy I use to work for who grass fed steers for people, and any one else I can find probably. Any help is appreciated. :help:

Brute, what types of grasses do you have in your pastures down in S.Tex and will it be fertilized.??

 

[Brute 23]

Most of it is just common bermuda, there is some KR Bluestem and Klein in areas. Not really native but not improved. It can be fertilized if it will pay.

This place has a Klein hay patch. I only need one cutting of hay off it so when, IF, it comes back the calves can be put on it. The field is tied into the cattle pins with water. It is fert. and growing as we speak.

That is what I was worried about with buying the smaller calves. I figured they would be in the pens and then a trap for a couple weeks to settle down and work them. It wouldn't be that hard to set up a creep feeder or I can have them hand fed every day, if it will pay.

 

[novaman]

Maybe this is a dumb question but why sell off some cows and now turn around and buy calves to put in their place? As said the calves may not thrive with grass alone. Seems to me you would be much better off doing nothing or running a few more pair. Again maybe this is dumb thinking.

 

[1982vett]

Maybe this is a dumb question but why sell off some cows and now turn around and buy calves to put in their place? As said the calves may not thrive with grass alone. Seems to me you would be much better off doing nothing or running a few more pair. Again maybe this is dumb thinking.

Not intending to answer for Brute, but this is my trend of thought on buying cows........after years of drought and selling cows for lack of forage....a lot aren't convinced the recent rains are going to continue so calves aren't the same committment as cows.

For the return on investment the past decade, I'm beginning to lean toward voting for "doing nothing". :nod: I'm 33% under my peak stocking rate and 20% under my target. I no longer have intentions to push those limits anymore.

 

[Brute 23]

I am of the same thinking. I have heard people talk about doing this before on here. :???:

 

[dun]

Maybe this is a dumb question but why sell off some cows and now turn around and buy calves to put in their place? As said the calves may not thrive with grass alone. Seems to me you would be much better off doing nothing or running a few more pair. Again maybe this is dumb thinking.

Not intending to answer for Brute, but this is my trend of thought on buying cows........after years of drought and selling cows for lack of forage....a lot aren't convinced the recent rains are going to continue so calves aren't the same committment as cows.

For the return on investment the past decade, I'm beginning to lean toward voting for "doing nothing". :nod: I'm 33% under my peak stocking rate and 20% under my target. I no longer have intentions to push those limits anymore.

Drought is a powerful teacher, if only poeple would listen

 

[shaz]

Maybe this is a dumb question but why sell off some cows and now turn around and buy calves to put in their place? As said the calves may not thrive with grass alone. Seems to me you would be much better off doing nothing or running a few more pair. Again maybe this is dumb thinking.

Not intending to answer for Brute, but this is my trend of thought on buying cows........after years of drought and selling cows for lack of forage....a lot aren't convinced the recent rains are going to continue so calves aren't the same committment as cows.

For the return on investment the past decade, I'm beginning to lean toward voting for "doing nothing". :nod: I'm 33% under my peak stocking rate and 20% under my target. I no longer have intentions to push those limits anymore.

Drought is a powerful teacher, if only poeple would listen

3 years of drought in a row taught me some bad habits too. One of which is pouring on nitrogen in March out of fear that I won't be able to grow grass after May.

 

[1982vett]

3 years of drought in a row taught me some bad habits too. One of which is pouring on nitrogen in March out of fear that I won't be able to grow grass after May.

Even that didn't work up to its potential last year. Plus being the optimist I was that it won't grow without it.....course it won't grow with fertilizer and without rain either.

Did prove that storing excess hay from year to year(lesson learned in 1996) was a good practice......I think. Still it might have been better to sell the cows and the hay. Last year I did manage to produce about 191 tons of hay but fed about 212 tons. Still have about 80 tons in reserve from the 771 tons I produced in 2007.

Just for the record, I produced 58 tons in 2008 so 2009 was 3 1/2 times better than 2008.......... Not really, just fewer cattle.

 

[shaz]

3 years of drought in a row taught me some bad habits too. One of which is pouring on nitrogen in March out of fear that I won't be able to grow grass after May.

Even that didn't work up to its potential last year. Plus being the optimist I was that it won't grow without it.....course it won't grow with fertilizer and without rain either.

Did prove that storing excess hay from year to year(lesson learned in 1996) was a good practice......I think. Still it might have been better to sell the cows and the hay. Last year I did manage to produce about 191 tons of hay but fed about 212 tons. Still have about 80 tons in reserve from the 771 tons I produced in 2007.

Just for the record, I produced 58 tons in 2008 so 2009 was 3 1/2 times better than 2008.......... Not really, just fewer cattle.

I come up with all kinds of insanity to manage drought.
1) Try to transplant some Johnson grass from the hayfield to the pasture with the best pond (it's over twenty ft deep)
2) Run an irrigation line along the side of this same pasture so I can break out sprinklers.
And all this planning cost me......... I'm embarrassed to say really.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Maybe this is a dumb question but why sell off some cows and now turn around and buy calves to put in their place? As said the calves may not thrive with grass alone. Seems to me you would be much better off doing nothing or running a few more pair. Again maybe this is dumb thinking.

Good idea if you want to try to maximize profit per acre, but you are also maximizing risk and management required unless you are very planful...

 

[jack1234]

A quotation repeated to me by my grandfather about 20 years ago pretty much sums up S. Texas and the I-35 corridor: It's a land of perpetual drought punctuated by floods.

It seems to me you might be a little late in maximizing your use of the spring season. Typical deep summer months in S. Texas are going to be very rough on stockers-- especially w/out significantly improved pasture. By this I mean irrigated sorghum-sudangrass and the like.

As it is, even if there's good rain the rest of spring, from about mid-June until September rains, your forage quality will likely be such that it'll be difficult to put any weight on them. The bermuda will be in a dormant state w/ low nutrient density. That said, if there's forage quantity available throughout summer and you don't have to supplement feed, you might get away w/ holding them through summer (with little weight gain, but growth in their frame) and then putting good weight on them in the fall when the bermuda greens up with fresh growth.

In any event, due to the season and environment, I think it's safe to say you'd be better off w/ heavier starting weights (550+) and sticking to animals w/ a very heavy dose of Bos Indicus.

Marketing them is also key. Won't make much $$ by reselling at the local auction barn. Preferably, need to have a pot-load (50,000lb) and find a feedlot buyer/broker who will pay you a premium for backgrounded, pre-conditioned animals.

 

[Stocker Steve]

No matter what size it will eat about 2.5-3% of its body weight in grass.

A book will tell you "average" cows are on the low end of the range and stockers are on the high end.

Key point is you need better quality graze, and leave more residual, to make any money with stockers.

 

[Central Fl Cracker]

The problem is that unless you have some spectacular grass those smaller calves will require more then they can get form grass. At best you will end up with pot bellied calves at worst pot bellied stunted calves

Dun
i don't have great grass (bahia) but I only put 20ea. 450 lb heifers and put them on 135 ac. i put them out April 1st and they are precondioned and my plan is to keep them on grass and give them a bag or 2 of cowboy helper just to make it easierto move around. In november decide to sell them as stockers if prices stay high but if prices drop we will breed to an Angus bull and sell them as bred heifers. you mentione pot bellied calves or at worst pot bellied stunted calves. i guess my question is how to avoid this wreck. I do have 4 ea. 34 ac. grass traps so i was going to rotate them about every 2 weeks. if this works out well i want to bump up to 35 or 40 head next year.i have done cow/calf but would rather try stockers. Any advice from you or others would be greatly appreciated.

 

[cross_7]

i going to give my 2 cents worth and thats probably bout what it's worth.
lots of people in my travels(tx,ok,ks) do exactly what your wanting to do and add summer stockers when they have extra grass.
as dun stated the light weight cattle require better grass/protein or like he said thay tend to get doggy.
also as texas bred asked what grass & fert. ? what he wants to know is how good is the grass/protein and etc.

When crude protein is below eight percent, rumen bacteria responsible for digesting
forage cannot maintain adequate growth rates. Forage intake and digestibility will then
decrease. Crude protein supplements are appropriate under these conditions to
stimulate forage intake.
Forages with adequate levels of crude protein will not require protein supplementation
to improve intake but may need crude protein supplementation if cattle nutrient
requirements for crude protein are not being met by the forage alone. If the forage
supplies at least eight percent crude protein, then forage intake will likely decrease with
the addition of protein supplements fed at a rate of 0.3 percent of body weight or more
as a substitution effect takes place. Forage quality testing is an invaluable tool for
determining stored forage crude protein concentrations in advance of feeding.Cattle Business in Mississippi – May 2009
"Beef Production Strategies" article

for me 5 weight cattle seem to work best, but not in todays market.

here is an article that might help
http://msucares.com/livestock/beef/mca_apr2009.pdf