calves drinking from buckets

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Craig Miller

Craig Miller

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Nw Alabama
This is a spin off from the double r ranch post in the health boards "looking for ideas". It it she said the calf was drinking from a bucket without a nipple. I have been told that if they do that it goes to a diffrent stomach and they dont get anything from it. Is this a true statement?
 
This is one of those deals that science says one thing but results say something different. If it was that bad most of the dairys would never be able to raise a replacement heifer. I've seen very few dairys that stick with bottles after the first week or so.
 
that is a crock pure an simple.i dont care what science says.ive fed calves both ways buckets an bottles.an i prefer bottles because of the speed of feeding.
 
The only thing I have been told about bucket vs bottles, by folks I respect here on CT, is bucket feed calves are more likely to develope milk belly from buckets. But I'm under the impression they grow out of milk belly in time.
 
My understanding is that in younger calves milk bypasses the rumen and flows directly to the obamasum while solids and water go to the rumen. I also understand the rumen isn't fully developed for some number of weeks after birth. The esophagus has a groove in it allowing foods to pass to the rumen. There are suppose to be several triggers which allow the esophagus to close, wrap or constrict so that the groove allowing material to divert to the rumen closes and forces the material to the obamasum. Sucking is one of the primary triggers but neck and head position and taste are believed to be a few others. In other words, bottles and buckets should work properly as long as the reaction diverts milk from the rumen.

Edit (Added): Small amounts of milk in the rumen apparently are not a problem but larger amounts need to be avoided. Most texts, likely for the sake of brevity, only cite the primary trigger of sucking\nursing as closing the esophagus groove making it a pretty quick leap to wrongly assume that bucket feeding milk will cause milk to direct to the rumen.
 
I like buckets because of the speed of clean up, and the hope they might possibly lose some of that sucking instinct a bit younger so when turned out with adult cows i hopefully don't have to deal with large critters sucking on the other cows when they are supposed to be weaned....
 
Get a group of 6 and put them on buckets. Get another group of 6 and put them on bottles. Leave them like that for a month. Same formula and same amount of replacer. Look at the differences.

I'll never use a bucket. My mind was made up as concrete back in the 70's long before I knew about the groove and that the replacement was going to the wrong place.

It has been debated here in this forum over and over. Some folks are almost as hard headed as I am. :lol:
 
backhoeboogie":2wg2a0eq said:
Get a group of 6 and put them on buckets. Get another group of 6 and put them on bottles. Leave them like that for a month. Same formula and same amount of replacer. Look at the differences.

I'll never use a bucket. My mind was made up as concrete back in the 70's long before I knew about the groove and that the replacement was going to the wrong place.

It has been debated here in this forum over and over. Some folks are almost as hard headed as I am. :lol:
Click to expand...

We raised thousands over the years and did it both ways at one time or another with very little difference in performance, sickness or death loss. Whatever you prefer is best for "you".
 
The calf I wrote about was already an older calf (around 2-3 months old) when I put him on a bucket. The reason for him being on a bucket was his brain issues and the lack of suck he had. I don't think for him he would have made it without tube feeding at the point where he was at. It has helped greatly in getting him on grain. Can't have him "eat" grain from a bottle with no sucking.
We have always done bottles and if we wanted to do a bucket it was a bucket with a nipple on it.
Having never done a "bucket" baby I can't say one way or another. I know he doesn't choke on his milk this way. Weather he's better or worse because of it I can't say. It has worked well in this instance but i'll still use bottles (and am currently) for other calves. :)
 
Had a guy named Dillard telling me how he and a partner were going to go into the roping stock business. They bought 30 something bottle calves and all died. We never got on to the subject of how he fed them and such. But it amazes me that some people do the things they do.

I use nurse cows these days. Like that better than bottles.
 
backhoeboogie":31exbdmo said:
Had a guy named Dillard telling me how he and a partner were going to go into the roping stock business. They bought 30 something bottle calves and all died. We never got on to the subject of how he fed them and such. But it amazes me that some people do the things they do.

I use nurse cows these days. Like that better than bottles.
Click to expand...
Reminds me of the guy that bought a hundred chicks and they all died. He figured he had planted them too deep
 
We raised 75-100 baby calves per year when we had the dairy, for about 30 years. We never used a nipple. We took the calves from the cows at 3 days old, used the bucket from the first feeding, using our fingers to coax them to drink. After a week, we would have them in groups of 4-6 and pour the milk in the trough and they would drink together. Sometimes, the slow drinkers would have to be put together to keep from getting shorted on milk. They had all the grain and soft hay they could eat and we would wean at 8 weeks. Now that is shortened due to high cost of milk replacer. I know the bottle and nipple would have given each calf an exact amount, but there was never enough time to feed them individually.
 
Craig Miller":1c5ep0xk said:
This is a spin off from the double r ranch post in the health boards "looking for ideas". It it she said the calf was drinking from a bucket without a nipple. I have been told that if they do that it goes to a diffrent stomach and they dont get anything from it. Is this a true statement?
Click to expand...

This is interesting, I have never heard of feeding calves under a week old straight on a bucket-I have been raising calves for 20 years this is how I do it-first 2 weeks they get a bottle(twice a day), after that they are on the bucket until weaning. They get milk or replacer, twice a day, sometimes 3times a day in winter or super cold temps, and water. grain starts at the same time a bucket does, but they do waste alot of grain-until they are much older-they do fine this way-they have to be on a bucket before they are weaned else they will not be able to survive weaning where they are in a pen with free choice water, they have to learn to drink and eat out of buckets
 
When calves drink water in needs to go to the rumen. Milk replacer does not. Google for yourself and there is proof of it right there on the internet. Vaccum aids in the direction of milk replacement.

The esophageal groove has been around a lot longer than all of us.

There is a difference and I have seen it first hand.

Calves can live either way and if that is all your goal is, so be it.

If you do not know how the esophageal groove works, check it out on the internet. Or don't. Your choice.
 
When cow milk or milk replacer is fed to calves from either a nipple or open bucket, the esophogeal groove closes and milk bypasses the rumen and is shunted from the esophagus into the abomasum or true stomach. The groove closes in response to the sucking stimuli and milk protein.

Raising calves is an art and the dedicated "artist" can raise calls well either way (bucket or bottle). BTW most calf deaths are caused by "poor management". :nod: :nod: In most opeations the best calf raiser is the "Lady of the house, 2nd is the hired hand and 3rd is the old man (that would be me)". For every operation doing a superb job of raising calves on buckets there will be another that is doing just as good a job with bottles. It's more preference than science.
 

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