C section survival rate?

[Amo]

Ive ran cows for almost 20 years now. Started out with 5, now up to about 150. Over that span, Ive had maybe half a dozen C Sections. 2 years ago I had 2 c sections. First one was a solid mouth cow. Head down and wouldn't stay up. Vet came out, & we tried to pull it. Well it was the first hot day of the spring. Cow was riled up. Went down in the chute & had to let her out. When we let her out to get her up, she tried to jump out of the coral. Got her in, cut open & sewed up. While she was sewing her up, she said "now don't be suprised if she don't make it. Heifers will always survive a c section, but only 5% of the cows will". Well we let her out. She layed down behind the barn facing North. Next day she was facing South. Third day dead! I seen vet one day. She asked how the critter was doing. I said calf is fine. Cow died. Next day I got her bill!

Several weeks after that I took one to a different vet. He had a short temper & was in a bad mood when I got there. Tried to pull it there after I tried to pull it at home, but couldn't. So he cut her open. When he was done she was pretty week, but walked onto the trailer. She never walked off.

Well today I had a heifer that was supposed to calve mid march get bred early. Calf wasn't big, but heifer was small. So took to vet just in case. Tried to pull, but vet decided to cut. Very young vet. No clue if he had done one before or not. Anyhow, gave spinal tap, numbed the area. Half way through initial cut, heifer went down. She "scooted" out. She tries to get up. As of 2 hrs after the initial cut, she still wouldn't get up. Left her at the vet. He gave her some calcium.

Guess what Im wondering is how often does this happen? Is it from not getting the spinal tap in the right spot? Is the survival rate of c sections really that bad....cause Ive been told its not. IF heifer don't make it does clinic have any libality coverage? Im not the type to sue over hot coffee. She did walk off the trailer fine. We are all human and accidents happen. They also have the degree and charge for their service.

The first cow who knows what happened. The second I think she bled internally maybe both cows had that problem. Or maybe a spinal tap in the wrong spot. First cow vet had a hard time with spinal tap. Kinda thinking that might be the problem. Ive had several where the cow stands for the whole procedure, walks on the trailer, and raises the calf. Hopefully that's what happens here. Casually mentioned the previous 2 experiences to other non-local vets that year. They said it shouldn't of happened. I kinda agree. This deal today, Im not sure. Im hoping for the best. Just kinda curious.

Thanks

 

[Bigfoot]

I've never had one survive.

 

[randiliana]

I've never had one die. Usually have 1 a year, could be an old cow, a heifer with too small pelvis, etc, but every one survived and many raised that calf as well. But ours have all been done at the Vet's clinic and were well restrained.

 

[Amo]

Squeeze chute first. Wanted to go down while pulling. Went to a head gate with a calving panel/nursing gate thing. That's where I've seen all of mine done that have gone to a clinic.

 

[Lucky_P]

I did a fair number of them when I was in practice - almost always out in the field, with the cow/heifer either tied between trees or to the front end of the practice truck... not sure I ever did one at the clinic, and rarely in a barn.
There's no predicting - and it matters what sort of condition the cow is in when you start out - but even then, some don't make it for whatever reason.
The vast majority of those that I performed survived; the ones that didn't were usually either already down, or had a partially rotten, emphysematous calf in them. In retrospect, some of those would probably have been better handled as a fetotomy...

Did one on one of my own heifers once...did everything about the same way I would have with a client's animal...maybe even a little more carefully, 'cause it was one of my first AI calves. Calf was alive. Heifer was dead within 24 hours. I've got no idea why.... she'd not been laboring long or hard, was in good condition... just died.

Had one done here about 18 months ago, and the next door neighbors had one about a year ago, both done by local large animal vet; mine - out in the field tied to a tree, neighbor's - in the barn. Both survived; mine raised her calf and both went to the salebarn at weaning, neighbor's calf was d.o.a., but cow healed up fine and they shipped her.

 

[Amo]

Interesting Lucky P.

Well, my heifer had cleaned and was walking around this morning. Had a little bloody discharge I see this afternoon. Im guessing some from cleaning still?

Its major surgery. Anything can happen. You always have to have "your first one". Its just you turn them loose with a say $2000 animal you kinda want the vet to know what he is doing. Im just glad this one so far, has come out like its supposed to.

 

[Lucky_P]

There are different ways of doing C-sections; I don't even remember what they taught me in vet school, 30+ years ago... probably a standing flank approach - which I've never done, and never seen done. We all have our preferred technique.
Vet school classmate talked me through how to do one in our first year out of school; I don't know that the vet I started out working for (he had been in practice for 10 years before I came) had ever done one.
I always did a ventral midline incision, with the cow knocked out with IV ketamine... usually by the time I was closing skin, she'd be kicking a little, and they'd usually be right up on their feet after I untied them.
Have had two done by veterinarians from two different local veterinary practices in the past 15 years; both did ventral midline approaches; one gave a big (60ml) epidural and cast the cow with ropes, the other sedated the cow with Rompun. In both cases, cow and calf both survived. Both cows took a while to get up.

 

[milkmaid]

I've done a handful, as far as I know all survived. I've seen plenty done at places I worked before vet school, most survived. The condition of the cow and calf prior to surgery makes a huge difference in outcome.

If I owned the cow and found her early enough, I wouldn't hesitate to do a csection.

My outcome on fetotomies is less but that's to be expected.....

 

[Koffi Babone]

If I recall correctly, the ones I lost were due mostly to uterine torsions. If the C-section is done fairly quickly, survival rates are good; but the longer you wait, the lower the odds are for a positive outcome. If the uterine tissue is an angry red or purple colour, the chances of survival are not very good for the dam.

As far as I can remember, I have never had a live calf in cases of uterine torsion (needing a c-section).

 

[Nesikep]

We had one C section done, uterine torsion, calf was DOA but the cow was fine, but I don't know if she bred back.