Buying cows - need input

[cliq20]

We have lost a lot of old cows recently to age, etc. I'm looking to buy cows in Indiana and want to have some feedback on prices.

Looking to buy 17 bred 5-6 yr old cows. Asking price 950-1000 each. some (3+) have calves on the ground. they look scraggly but it's because the owner fed them thin this winter.

Also looking to buy 8 ready to breed heifers (i hate pulling calves so i'm a little leery about this). he's wanting 1,050 each for them.

I need 25 cows to get back to maximum production capacity. Please provide input if possible. With calf prices up and hopefully staying up for a couple years, we need to replenish. and i hope i'm buying before cow prices follow.

Thanks in advance.

 

[3waycross]

My biggest fear would be will they breed back in a resonable time frame. Depending on how thin they are you could end up with a poor calf crop and a lot of opens out of the older cows. The heifers not so much if they are cycling and IF they are even going to cycle because of having been underfed.

The price sounds great but it may be because you are getting exactly what you pay for. :2cents:

 

[Angus Cowman]

The price sounds great but it may be because you are getting exactly what you pay for. :2cents:

:nod: :nod:

 

[cliq20]

i think i trust the guy i'm getting them from and i kind of misspoke, maybe half of them look thinner than they should (maybe a 3-4 are actually scraggly). I bought 8 last year from the same guy and they were thin, but i feed much better and they put weight back on well and have had some nice calves.

either way, i guess my thought is that for that price i may be able to cull the underperformers (hopefully after they have had a couple calves and somewhat paid for themselves) and still get a decent price at market to recoup any purchase price. someone i know recently sold a couple cow/calf pairs for 1,250 and 3 cows at market for .79/lb. those cows were probably on the heavy side because he only had 5 total in his herd.

basically, i was hoping for feedback on the original price and it sounds like it's decent.

the guy works for United Producers

 

[Jovid]

i think i trust the guy i'm getting them from and i kind of misspoke, maybe half of them look thinner than they should (maybe a 3-4 are actually scraggly). I bought 8 last year from the same guy and they were thin, but i feed much better and they put weight back on well and have had some nice calves.

either way, i guess my thought is that for that price i may be able to cull the underperformers (hopefully after they have had a couple calves and somewhat paid for themselves) and still get a decent price at market to recoup any purchase price. someone i know recently sold a couple cow/calf pairs for 1,250 and 3 cows at market for .79/lb. those cows were probably on the heavy side because he only had 5 total in his herd.

basically, i was hoping for feedback on the original price and it sounds like it's decent.

the guy works for United Producers

Why are you asking for input when it sounds like you have already decided what you are going to do?

 

[cliq20]

for the following reasons:
1. to confirm that my rationale is correct and i'm not off my rocker - sometimes we can easily talk ourselves into something
2. because i don't hang around a lot of other beef cattle producers and this is my only place to bounce things off of - i'm a CPA so there's not much time to run in the cattleman "circles"
3. to confirm that the prices are reasonable - i don't know the market prices of cattle on a daily basis. all i've heard is that calf prices are higher and expected to stay higher for a while (who really knows). i am hedging on the fact that it might drive up breeding cow prices.
4. to get any other thoughts before i pull the trigger - i have to get a loan to finance the purchase and i want to be sure that i'm thinking of everything

my "scraggly" is a subjective term. my scraggly and your scraggly are different i'm sure. i'm sure pictures would help.

thanks.

 

[3waycross]

for the following reasons:
1. to confirm that my rationale is correct and i'm not off my rocker - sometimes we can easily talk ourselves into something
2. because i don't hang around a lot of other beef cattle producers and this is my only place to bounce things off of - i'm a CPA so there's not much time to run in the cattleman "circles"
3. to confirm that the prices are reasonable - i don't know the market prices of cattle on a daily basis. all i've heard is that calf prices are higher and expected to stay higher for a while (who really knows). i am hedging on the fact that it might drive up breeding cow prices.
4. to get any other thoughts before i pull the trigger - i have to get a loan to finance the purchase and i want to be sure that i'm thinking of everything

my "scraggly" is a subjective term. my scraggly and your scraggly are different i'm sure. i'm sure pictures would help.

thanks.

My only thought would be to buy some insurance to go along with that loan. There ain't much in this world that will drop dead for you faster than a cow....

 

[cliq20]

Good point. I agree. We have lost so many cows recently for various reasons - old whatever and haven't replaced well. If you don't have cows you don't have revenue. The revenue should service the debt in theory. (Unless they die)

We just aren't running near to capacity and if you run any you might as well be close to capacity because you will have the time and capital investment either way.

Just trying to get back there sooner rather than later at lower price and hopefully better interest rate

 

[Stocker Steve]

Depends on the weather and what feed you have and their age:

I have had good success with skinny solid mouth cows - - just worm them and give them good hay.
I have had mixed success with skinny heifers - - if it is real cold (like well below freezing for 2 months straight) some will gain well on just hay and some stay skinny.

Cow price sounds good unless they are broken mouth...

 

[bigbull338]

yes you can make money off those cows,if they arnt to thin.an if need be you can cull them an pretty much break even.

 

[cliq20]

Thanks again

 

[tom4018]

If he works for United Producers, would this be cows that came thru the barn that he has put together?

 

[cliq20]

no he's a backgrounder and he buys herds from local farmers that are selling out.

 

[whitewing]

A question, what happened to what otherwise would have been your replacement heifers?

 

[cliq20]

Never kept any unfortunately. Neded operating cash more, don't have enough time to watch them enough, don't have a great area to hold them long enough till ready to breed(and keep bulls out), and we just simply lost more cows than expected over last few years. Im very leery of pulling calves. I had 3 really bad years pulling calves about 10 years ago. It was bad. Plus when you could buy 5-6 yr old bred cows for 750-950 and you get 500-600 per heifer at market the cost difference is worth the hassle. My rationale make any sense?? I barely have time to bale and feed let alone watch cows or even cull properly.

 

[whitewing]

I don't say this in a purely negative manner, but your response leaves me wondering why you even hassle with cattle. Seems there'd be so many more investments that would perform equally well and afford even more free time and perhaps lower risks. Just my 2 cents. Good luck with the continuing venture.

 

[cliq20]

Its a family thing. Definitely not in it to make money. I like it and have a knack for it but am short on time. Plus the land ( just good for pasture and hay really) needs to be used. Im hoping to retire and do it in 25 yrs but a lot can change by then. I know what needs to be done but I still do it like grandpa did it. - patch fence and not rebuild put cattle panels on the corral to fix it etc. Its really not too hard to handle but can be trying at times. And im the only one with the farm "blood" or "farm common sense" that can do it. Right now it exists in principal. And for the chance I might be able to get the land someday. I guess its really hard to explain. Im trying to do while driving 115 a day back and forth to work and working 45+ hrs a week as a CPA and grandpa had a 20 hr a week job nearby. Plus the price of calves has been the same for 20 yrs and input costs have increased substantially ( as we all know)
sorry for the long story.

 

[whitewing]

Its a family thing. Definitely not in it to make money. I like it and have a knack for it but am short on time. Plus the land ( just good for pasture and hay really) needs to be used. Im hoping to retire and do it in 25 yrs but a lot can change by then. I know what needs to be done but I still do it like grandpa did it. - patch fence and not rebuild put cattle panels on the corral to fix it etc. Its really not too hard to handle but can be trying at times. And im the only one with the farm "blood" or "farm common sense" that can do it. Right now it exists in principal. And for the chance I might be able to get the land someday. I guess its really hard to explain. Im trying to do while driving 115 a day back and forth to work and working 45+ hrs a week as a CPA and grandpa had a 20 hr a week job nearby. Plus the price of calves has been the same for 20 yrs and input costs have increased substantially ( as we all know)
sorry for the long story.

Cliq20, you certainly don't owe me any explanations. I was just making the observation about your time limitations. I know my place takes virtually all the time I have available to devote to it....to do it right (in my view) and take the best care possible of the animals. The latter is always the most important for me as I take the care and health of the animals very seriously.

Anyway, good luck going forward and try to visit us here as often as possible. I've certainly learned a lot at this valuable site.

 

[cliq20]

Yeah I just went on my rant I guess. The animals are healthy. Some are just old and they get bad feet because its so Hilly and rocky. I do my best. But I know they are not mistreated. Sometimes that's the best I can do (other stuff suffers - fence etc)

 

[cliq20]

I just love it but it wont pay the bills. It could I guess but with me being already certified it would be quite a risk leaving my decent paying job. Plus after being behind a desk all day it gets me outside where I love it. Its just too bad its at 10pm sometimes (im feeding now) I spend the few hrs after work with my 5&6 year old and wife (and im a night owl) . I just wish I had a partner that was interested. His passion is rebuilding cars. Hes a school principal and I can get him to do anything. He could be here every day. But he also doesn't have the farm "smarts" if you know what I mean. He would wreck the place. He really has a ton of free time. Oh well more sad stories. So I hv to pay farm help sometimes which is cool - yeah right.