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BrandX

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well my wife and i bought our fist piece of property back in august. it was 110 acres of mostly open and neglected land, that hand not had any fence on it in years.we paid about 1300/ac for it and started clearing fence line and building fence on half the property.this weekend we finally got to move our small herd of ten cows to the land. We also took our six calves the sale barn and sold them for less than i would have liked.1407lb black angus heifer got $1.50/lb. 4 250lb black angus hefiers brought 1.63/lb. 1 250lb black and white angus steer brought 1.83/lb. total after the sale fees was about $2,633. we have the farm leased for hunting for $1,000 a year for a total farm income of 3,600 dollars. to bad my land payment is $6,700/yr. i guess i need more cows!
 

Lazy M

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Sounds to me like you got a really good price on your land and reasonable prices for your calves (especially the cow). I'm rarely satisfied either, but I think you've done well so far.
 

Bigfoot

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I knew a guy once, that was driving to Florida and buying water melons for a dollar apiece and bringing them home and selling them for a dollar apiece. When he realized he wasn't making any money, he bought a bigger truck--------Be careful buying more cows.


Actually, I'd say your land is appreciating. Your in good shape.
 

TennesseeTuxedo

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BrandX":11i79582 said:
well my wife and i bought our fist piece of property back in august. it was 110 acres of mostly open and neglected land, that hand not had any fence on it in years.we paid about 1300/ac for it and started clearing fence line and building fence on half the property.this weekend we finally got to move our small herd of ten cows to the land. We also took our six calves the sale barn and sold them for less than i would have liked.1407lb black angus heifer got $1.50/lb. 4 250lb black angus hefiers brought 1.63/lb. 1 250lb black and white angus steer brought 1.83/lb. total after the sale fees was about $2,633. we have the farm leased for hunting for $1,000 a year for a total farm income of 3,600 dollars. to bad my land payment is $6,700/yr. i guess i need more cows!

Those prices are good. Where do you sell your calves?
 

dieselbeef

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110 acres for 135 k wasn't around the ona herd(white angus)..5 acres just down the road from me sold for 65k. it was an old tree farm. full of palms ..rundown nursery full of garbage and squatters

if you are near Myakka id like to know ya
 

TexFarmer

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What are you using to clear fencelines? We hired out a dozer to clear one section with too many big trees. That got expensive in a hurry. I've cleared a lot by hand. That got tiring in a hurry. Problem with my place is it's loaded with nasty thorny black locusts trees that can grow up to 6 feet per year!! I've declared war on those things but so far they are winning.
 
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BrandX

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we are in oklahoma and sold them locally in the city. as for clearing fence line it is mostly by hand. i have a stihl saw and a little 40hp tractor 4x4 with a loader bucket. we then pound 3in well pipe in the ground with a kencove hydraulic pounder and install 5 or 6 strands of barbwire on used t-posts every 10 foot. it cost us about .55 cents a foot.
 

Rafter S

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Bigfoot":2jmc1skn said:
I knew a guy once, that was driving to Florida and buying water melons for a dollar apiece and bringing them home and selling them for a dollar apiece. When he realized he wasn't making any money, he bought a bigger truck--------Be careful buying more cows.

This forum really needs a "Like" button.
 
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BrandX

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our land payment was coming due in 90 days, and the calves were already on the trailer to be moved to the new place. i figured since the prices seem to be up lately i would just sell them. maybe i should have grazed them a little longer for more weight but then if prices dropped some it might be a wash. these were hefier calves so they were just going to be a little smaller anyway. and i thought getting off the cows would help with bred back. not sure if it was right but thats what my logic was.

any idea what they may have gained in the next 60-90 days. we dont creep feed.
 

Katpau

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BrandX":3noqa4o3 said:
our land payment was coming due in 90 days, and the calves were already on the trailer to be moved to the new place. i figured since the prices seem to be up lately i would just sell them. maybe i should have grazed them a little longer for more weight but then if prices dropped some it might be a wash. these were hefier calves so they were just going to be a little smaller anyway. and i thought getting off the cows would help with bred back. not sure if it was right but thats what my logic was.

any idea what they may have gained in the next 60-90 days. we dont creep feed.
How old were those 250 pound calves? Around here an Angus calf that weight would be 2 to 3 months old. That seems really young to wean and sell. Some people feed bottle calves that long. You say you were grazing them. Are you saying they were already weaned? The price you quote sounds like the buyers expected some impressive growth out of those calves, so I expect they were very thin but healthy. A healthy 250 pound calf on mothers milk and good pasture should gain 2 to 4 pounds per day without creep. In 60 days I would conservatively estimate healthy calves to gain at least 120 pounds putting them at 370 which should still be at the top of the market. A healthy calf with some compensatory gain on good forage might gain 200 pounds or even more in those 60 days.

You said the heifer weighed over 1400 pounds. That would be a good sized adult in my registered Angus herd. Are you saying your 250 pound heifer calves can make 1400 pounds as yearling heifers? How old was that heifer?

You bought 110 acres at $1300 an acre or $143,000.00. Your payments are $6,700.00 per year or about 4.69% of total. That sounds like a 30 year 4% mortgage with about $25,000.00 down. I don't know that area, but it sounds like with your hard work and time that could be a profitable investment.

The weights you gave don't make sense to me. If this is for real, I would say don't get more cows until you have the place cleaned up and facilities to work them in place. See how it goes for a year with just 10 cows. Those cows should be able to nurse a calf for 6 to 7 month and breed back without problems, or you need to replace them with cows who can. If those 10 cows are unable to keep up with your forage after a year you can keep replacements or buy bred cows or pairs. It is unlikely that hunting and cows will pay your mortgage, so hopefully you have a day job that will. If 90% of your cows breed and wean a 550 pound calf you will have 4950 pounds of calf to sell next year. The market is all over, so you could get $1.00 a pound or $2.50. If we estimate $1.50 a pound that would be $7,425.00 but you will have expenses in those cows so that is not all profit. Winter feed (maybe summer feed if pastures can't keep up), vaccinations, minerals and salt, vet bills, breeding (AI? bull?). You need to pay for fencing, corrals, a squeeze, and other infrastructure. What about replacements? Will you keep back heifers meaning less animals to sell or will you spend money to buy those replacements. Without seeing your land everything is a guess. The land might support 50 cows if it is all irrigated with improved forages, or it might not support 10 cows. You may already know this, but most small operations operate in the red. In many cases the cattle are there to keep real estate taxes low. The land should appreciate in value, especially with your improvements, so it likely was a good investment. Just be sure to find a way to make those payments that does not depend on the revenue from cattle.
 
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BrandX

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ok I see why that's confusing. there should be a space between the on and the 4. the one heifer weighed 470 not 1470. sorry for the confusion. the 250lb calves were born late summer and early fall. I am not sure why they did not gain more but I am hoping it is due in large part to being from heifers. I do think maybe we should have held them for another 60 days, but they are gone now. we will also be implementing some kind of mineral program this year for our herd. we have already a squeeze chute crowding tub ect for facilities although we have no barns. and we will be working on getting the other 60 acres fenced in soon. yes we got a good price on our land and we have no money down with a 3.5 interest rate. yes I do have a job for the air force that pays our bills
 

Katpau

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OK, 470 pounds makes more sense. Heifers will wean lighter calves and winter can make things more difficult to put weight on, but 250 pounds is still pretty light for a 3 to 4 month old calf out of a heifer. Hopefully your new place will give them a better chance at meeting their potential. If you plan to Fall and winter calve you will probably need to feed better in the winter. Grazing is unlikely to be sufficient. Before you decide to add more cows I suggest you see what others in your area are doing. Someone local with experience raising cattle under similar circumstances could probably give you some good advice. If you want those cows to pay their way you will need to get them weaning heavy calves and they should be calving every 365 days. I understand why you sold early this time, but in the future I would expect them to wean 500+ pound calves by 6 months on grass or I would look into better genetics.

Your loan confuses me. $143,000 at 3.5% over 30 years would require payments of $7700.00. So either the loan is greater than 30 years or there is a balloon payment at some point. I am impressed you could negotiate such a low rate on a longer term contract. Perhaps this is a short term contract with a big balloon payment.
 

farmerjan

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Just my 2 cents. I think the price per pound was pretty good, and yes they were a little light. Don't know what the feed/grazing/hay situation was for last year. Like you said, they are gone so go from here. Prices here in Va are in the 1.25 to 1.40/lb for 3-4 wts.

Don't know the grazing conditions there or what you figure the average carrying capacity of the land. Here it is 1-2 acres per c/cf pair in a NORMAL growing season. Rain at regular intervals etc....all summer. If you have approx 60 acres fenced and it hasn't been grazed or anything they ought to have a decent first year of cleaning it up and picking unless there is alot of brush/woods/trees. I think they will be able to put on some weight and grow some. Are they already bred back for fall calves this year? Is it better to calve in the fall with less flies/heat etc, there?
I prefer spring calving 1st calf heifers here so they get the advantage of the growing/grass season. But did calve out 8 1st calf heifers last fall, they will be preg chkd this week and calves weaned to give them about 90-120 days dry to grow a little bit extra before fall calving. I will try to remember to note the calf weights but look like they will run in the 450-550 lb size. Calves were born in Sept so will be about 8 months. They weighed 70 lbs avg. when born from our very easing calving bull. I like the small calves; they pop them out, they are up and at 'em and no stress. We had an easy winter but hay quality wasn't top notch due to a late first cutting last year from delayed haying/wet may-june. The calves got a little feed, but only 1-2 lbs per head about 3 times a week to teach them to come into the catch pen through the creep gate. It makes it so easy to work them if they are used to coming in and don't get stressed. So they get a little "treat" for coming in and are used to me being there. But no, they don't have a creep feeder so growth is 98% momma's milk and grass/hay.
Minerals are VERY important. We try to keep a loose mineral mix in front of them and have a TM salt block in the mineral feeder so they don't go to spilling it all out. Have a couple that don't like the loose mineral so at least they are getting some benefit from the red salt block. Did not use supplement protein tubs this past year and I think they would have a little better condition if I had. Will see how the preg chk goes; hopefully they will all be bred but think there is 1 that might not be, her condition isn't as good as the rest.
We try to leave calves on for 6-9 months, but will wean/sell according to conditions/market demand etc. I will pull calves off heifers a little sooner than off cows so they can get a little longer break and grow and put back on condition before calving again.

I think once you get them on your land, get a feel for the carrying capacity and make improvements to the pasture so it is good grass, that you will be able to make the payment. Sounds like you have the handling facilities so I think you are doing good so far. If you can get them to wean off the calves a little bigger, and 2nd calf should be better, then 400 lbs @ 1.50 lb would be $600 a calf x 10 calves plus the hunting lease will make your payment. If you allow for expenses, vaccinations, a vet call or 2, maybe a lost calf, and unforseen things, you still ought to break even, on the yearly payments. The land should accrue in value, it is an investment in your future. Interest rate is very good, and if possible, maybe add a little more to the payment and cut a few years off it and save some interest money....or buy a few more head; not expensive ones, and let the low interest rate give you some more money to build a cushion on good years. Maybe you will find that these girls will not all make the grade and you can either decide to keep back say 2-3 heifers a year for replacements, or buy a few if the prices are more favorable to sell calves and buy breds.
Right now, here it is much more sensible to sell the calves for $5-600 per head and buy breds that are averaging only $800-1,000 head. Unless the cow dies, and sometimes they do, you can have another calf to sell in 8 months and still have a cow that is bred again or at least will bring salvage value of 500 or so. Rather than raise up a heifer that will take 2+ more years to get a calf to sell.
 

farmerjan

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dieselbeef":3mwxixc5 said:
dang jan. yer op is a mirror image of mine..pretty much the same pricewiase and think wise too.
way to go!

Thanks dieselbeef, usually I am not in the "favored group".
How are you and your son doing? How's his arm healing up? Heard there is quite a drought in Fl are you in that area?
 

dieselbeef

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were doing ok. mothers day came and went...booo.

his arm is good ..be getting the cast off the 30th.

drought is right. it hasnt rained in so long we forgot what rain is. my pasture is so dusty we had to water the pens before we worked cows this weekend.
 

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