Bulls

[CopeMan]

I want to discuss this. Many and I mean many of the farmers around my area use poor bulls in there herds. I mean they are short, short in length and have no masculinity at all. I have often wondered why. Ive asked my self maybe because there are not many Big breeders who market there bulls.? Maybe these "Old Timey" farmers just dont have a clue on genetics and all the modern advances in the cattle industry. I know of alot of farmers who raise there own bulls form crossbred herds and use them. These bulls are black but often crossed with anything to make them black. Alot have no calving seasons due to the fact that the bulls stay in all year round. Some use Charolais bulls but some of them are pretty sorry looking to. Not every farm is like this, there are still plenty who are in the modern age Id say of the cattle industry but alot of them are not. Does anyone have any input on this?

 

[Beefy]

different strokes for different folks.

 

[dbc]

Does the price of the bull have anything to do with it?

 

[msscamp]

Do you get everything you want? Apparently the bulls are doing what these guys want or they wouldn't be using them. As Beefy said, different strokes for different folks.

 

[CopeMan]

Does the price of the bull have anything to do with it?

Maybe some of them. I know this one man who recently passed away who never bought bulls. He always kept a bull calf back every year for a replacement. I guess in my own opinion why not buy a good bull?

 

[Tod Dague]

Is farming their primary income? I have friends here that are farmers and that is their income. They put cattle on those pieces of property that they can't plow for one reason or another and they do nothing more then gather up the calves once a year. They don't care to raise cattle or mess with leasing the property to some one who may let the cattle into their crops, but they know better then to let it sit there for nothing. A friend of mine once told me that if he doesn't put anything into them then he has to make a profit.

 

[dun]

See a lot of it around here. Kind of the "GAS" syndrome. If you get a calf to sell they don;t care about quality, just a hot body. Pound bulls are real popular at the local salebarn in the spring and fall.
Some of these folks are old timers that have alwasy done it this way, others have sorry cows that putting a good bull on would be a waste of money (in their mind). The only positive thing is that you don;t hear them squawking about the low price their calves bring.

dun

 

[Dap]

We have a lot of that around here too. That doesn't bother me nearly as much as all the folks we have moving in from the city though. They barely know which end of the cow a calf comes from, but they are quick to tell you that they raise "top quality registered black angus." Like someone said before, to each his own.

 

[redfornow]

I reckon we all have our "stuff" that just bugs us. :roll:

I see that around here alot and unlike dun's area we get alot of "you cant can any money farming" thing going on, with little or no management, just put em in a field with a bull and grab the calfs in the fall. You got to love it, but everyone has their way. But to me it looks more like a going out of business sale.

Another kicker of mine is farmer's that complain about "new" people getting in and driving up the costs. LOL
Everyone is happy when their cattle sale high, but when its time to buy then its the newby there driving up the price so the "real" farmer cant make a living. Always gets me.

Oh well done with the rant

MD

 

[UG]

The only real positive I'm guessing they are getting from these smaller bulls that lack muscle is that they are probably easy calving bulls.

I'm sure that the producers who use their own bulls know little, if anything, about hybrid vigor. They also probably don't put a pencil to their cattle operation to see how profitable it is using their meatless, sorry looking bulls.

If there are several of these producers who use their own bulls in your area, I'm guessing there is huge potential for a seedstock producer with good genetics. The challenge is helping them to understand what they have to gain by using new and improved genetics (i.e. more growth, more consistent look, and more $ at weaning).

Bobby Myrick from JBob Farms in NC had a similar situation in his area when he first started raising Gelbviehs (I believe in the late 80's). If I remember correctly, he gave area producers a bull to use for a breeding season and then when the resulting calves were weaned the following year the producer paid him the difference in what the calves brought at the sale barn compared to what they would have brought using their former bull. So, if a guy bred 30 cows and the resulting calves weighed 60 lb more at weaning and brought $80/cwt they paid $1440 for the bull (30 X 60 X $.80). Bobby made a lot of the locals believers in good genetics and built up a good base of customers.

 

[krenwic]

Not to be too cold-hearted, but I personally enjoy the satisfaction of knowing that my calves bring more than my neighbors. maybe they will catch on, or maybe they won't. If you're a purebred breeder (progressive), you hope to get them to buy your bulls but you know it will be an uphill battle. That is the only negative, otherwise let them do their thing.

 

[Dap]

I went to JBob's dispersal sale. Judging by the prices he made believers out of a lot of people. I'll miss buying from him. I bought my last 3 bulls SUS. He mastered the art of underselling and overdelivering.

As for my complaint about the new guys, it's really just jealousy. I wish I had that much money to throw around.

 

[S.R.R.]

Yes I have a third generation farmer next door ( a good man ) he likes to have cows that look just like bulls in fact a couple times I caught myself thinking his heifers were steers! But... when it comes time to breed he uses a regular old rent a bull. His 40 yr son wants to bring down the cow size and put a bigger bull on them put his Dad won,t hear of it.

 

[Australian Cattleman]

There are plenty of people around our country that do not know good cattle. Every person every area have these type of stories. I have two neighbours,one has the poorest excuses for Herefords and the other uses a Charolais Shorthorn bull that is horrible. I have a brother that uses a Droughmaster bull that should have been a steer. At least we'll get a calf is his reply.
I'm afraid I like to improve on quality each time I use a bull.

Colin

 

[DOC HARRIS]

CopeMan -

The basic underlying thread of your question here on this post - that is - Why do farmers/Ranchers use lousy, worthless, inefficient breeding cattle when there are better cattle and better ways?

THE ANSWER to this question/problem has been the primary reason and justification for the very existence and ALL of the efforts of Agricultural Universities, Colleges, Breed Associations, Registered Breeders, Progressive Commercial Cattlemen - - in fact, EVERYTHING that purports to improve the ways and methods of Cattlemen and just livestock producers in general for hundreds of years! Teachers and successful producers have attempted to impart knowledge and information into the heads of many, many people since the beginning of time - and there are still some human beings ( :shock who WILL NOT LISTEN NOR LEARN!

END OF SUBJECT! END OF DISCUSSION!

DOC HARRIS

 

[buckaroo_bif]

VERY WELL SAID DOC!!!

 

[Scotty]

CopeMan -

The basic underlying thread of your question here on this post - that is - Why do farmers/Ranchers use lousy, worthless, inefficient breeding cattle when there are better cattle and better ways?

THE ANSWER to this question/problem has been the primary reason and justification for the very existence and ALL of the efforts of Agricultural Universities, Colleges, Breed Associations, Registered Breeders, Progressive Commercial Cattlemen - - in fact, EVERYTHING that purports to improve the ways and methods that Cattlemen and just livestock producers in general for hundreds of years! Teachers and successful producers have attempted to impart knowledge and information into the heads of many, many people since the beginning of time - and there are still some human beings ( :shock who WILL NOT LISTEN OR LEARN!

END OF SUBJECT! END OF DISCUSSION!

DOC HARRIS

Let me ask you this. What if they can't afford to purchase the best genetics? They take there dock at the sale and go on. I bet if all were like you DOC they would have only the best.


Scotty

 

[DOC HARRIS]

CopeMan -

The basic underlying thread of your question here on this post - that is - Why do farmers/Ranchers use lousy, worthless, inefficient breeding cattle when there are better cattle and better ways?

THE ANSWER to this question/problem has been the primary reason and justification for the very existence and ALL of the efforts of Agricultural Universities, Colleges, Breed Associations, Registered Breeders, Progressive Commercial Cattlemen - - in fact, EVERYTHING that purports to improve the ways and methods that Cattlemen and just livestock producers in general for hundreds of years! Teachers and successful producers have attempted to impart knowledge and information into the heads of many, many people since the beginning of time - and there are still some human beings ( :shock who WILL NOT LISTEN OR LEARN!

END OF SUBJECT! END OF DISCUSSION!

DOC HARRIS

Let me ask you this. What if they can't afford to purchase the best genetics? They take there dock at the sale and go on. I bet if all were like you DOC they would have only the best.


Scotty

Scotty -
When you mention the possibility of one not being able to afford the "best genetics', you are talking to someone who has been there - done that - has the "T" shirt to prove it, and learned a better way as a result! ANY 'cattleman' who is in a position to improve his BUSINESS and bottom line who can't 'afford' to take some TIME and EFFORT to LEARN the BASICS of his BUSINESS, and convince his Banker to help him improve his life - had better get out of the 'game' - because that is what he is doing! Playing games, and not very well at that! A few dollars invested in BETTER BULL SEMEN can do wonders if a man has learned enough to know what he is doing! Even if it is just enough to improve One calf from One Cow!! :shock: An intelligent man does not continue to wallow in failure just because that's the way his Daddy and Grandpap did it!

DOC HARRIS

 

[CopeMan]

Thanks Doc, very well said. I agree some will not listen and alot of those who will not seem to live in my area...lol. Im not certain if one could have a market to sell registered bulls here, Im afraid they would still not buy.

 

[Scotty]

CopeMan -

The basic underlying thread of your question here on this post - that is - Why do farmers/Ranchers use lousy, worthless, inefficient breeding cattle when there are better cattle and better ways?

THE ANSWER to this question/problem has been the primary reason and justification for the very existence and ALL of the efforts of Agricultural Universities, Colleges, Breed Associations, Registered Breeders, Progressive Commercial Cattlemen - - in fact, EVERYTHING that purports to improve the ways and methods that Cattlemen and just livestock producers in general for hundreds of years! Teachers and successful producers have attempted to impart knowledge and information into the heads of many, many people since the beginning of time - and there are still some human beings ( :shock who WILL NOT LISTEN OR LEARN!

END OF SUBJECT! END OF DISCUSSION!

DOC HARRIS

Let me ask you this. What if they can't afford to purchase the best genetics? They take there dock at the sale and go on. I bet if all were like you DOC they would have only the best.


Scotty

Scotty -
When you mention the possibility of one not being able to afford the "best genetics', you are talking to someone who has been there - done that - has the "T" shirt to prove it, and learned a better way as a result! ANY 'cattleman' who is in a position to improve his BUSINESS and bottom line who can't 'afford' to take some TIME and EFFORT to LEARN the BASICS of his BUSINESS, and convince his Banker to help him improve his life - had better get out of the 'game' - because that is what he is doing! Playing games, and not very well at that! A few dollars invested in BETTER BULL SEMEN can do wonders if a man has learned enough to know what he is doing! Even if it is just enough to improve One calf from One Cow!! :shock: An intelligent man does not continue to wallow in failure just because that's the way his Daddy and Grandpap did it!

DOC HARRIS

Unfortunately yes. It took me I figure four years to recoop and set me back another. This is were I stopped listening to other people and made my own mind up. I made "money" every year. Now just make more. I do agree with you 100 % .
Just some people who don't have the numbers can't justify the 4000 dollar bull.

Scotty