Bull Coloring Question

[RazorbackRed]

Have a chance to use a young bull for free for one year. Thinking about putting out with about 12 of my commercial cows.

The 12 cows are composed of 6 Chars 4 blacks 1 red white face 9hereford looking cow and 1 all red heavy brammer influenced cow.

The Bull: 2 year old looks to be at least 80% brammer. The thing is speckled white/grey with black dots. Would be a real flashy bucking bull. Anyway, I know I'll probably getdocked if the calves come with some crazy colors, but I might be willing to give up a little money to have some fun with this bull, especially since its only the 12 head.

Any ideas how these calves will look and how much would I expect to get docked?

Thanks,

 

[ALACOWMAN]

about 10-20 cents a pound less. he aint gonna lock in any partiular color in that group. i had rather use a pure bred brahman bull on those type than the mongrel

 

[RazorbackRed]

have a char bull to put on them. i sure do like some ear though.

No idea what you think the coloring might be?

 

[ALACOWMAN]

have a char bull to put on them. i sure do like some ear though.

No idea what you think the coloring might be?

the charolais will probably be white or off white but it will be a toss up. with brahman influance....a 3/4 bull aint got not enough of one, and too much of the other; to get the best results he needs to be a fullblood .or no more than 1/4 for a crossbred bull

 

[RazorbackRed]

Sook-

I'll breed what ever in the heck I feel like breeding. I couldn't care less what you or anyone else thinks about it. Couldn't care less about your rhetoric.

 

[Rustler9]

From how you described the bull he sounds like a Plummer to me. We used one a few years ago and got white calves with black spots and speckles on them no matter what color cow we used. From what I understand the Plummer is named after the fellow who developed them for bucking stock. They are a mixture of Brahman and Longhorn. A local farmer here bought a bull or two from someone who had rodeo stock and pretty soon he had a pasture full of them. They made some pretty big brood cows, most were tame but a few wild ones in the bunch. The bull we used would fight you so he wound up as hamburger.
Still have one cow that is a grand daughter of that bull and is half Longhorn, she raises one of the fattest calves every year and thay ahve come out every color depending on which bull we breed on her.

 

[RazorbackRed]

Do you what % longhorn vs. brammer is in a plummer? You couldn't tell this bull wasn't a brammer except for no hump.

Huge floppy ears.

 

[Rustler9]

No, I don't know how much of each breed they contain. I like them personally, of course I breed Longhorn cattle so I'm in the minority on here anyway. We bred the bull on Beefalo and Beefmaster cows and got some big, nice calves. We used a Charolais bull back on the daughters and got yellow calves like you'll get from using Charolais on Longhorn. The Charolais seems to dilute the color, of course the Charolais crossed on a black Longhorn cow will often times give you a smoky gray colored calf.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Do you what % longhorn vs. brammer is in a plummer? You couldn't tell this bull wasn't a brammer except for no hump.

Huge floppy ears.

i sure would like to see this bull myself... its hard to believe he's aleast 3/4 bra influance and has no hump . he should have some sort of hump if not just from testosterone. ive had 3/4 momas with humps he sounds awfull weak to me. no way would i use him no matter how cheap.

 

[RazorbackRed]

I'll try and get a picture. I'll also checkw ith the owner to get more background. He has a hump but not just the big huge one like a full blood would have.

I am telling you he is built pretty good.

The fact that he is free is not an issue. Well I guess it is. I wouldn't consider using him if I had to pay for him, but since he is free I am interested to see if he throws a good terminal calf.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I'll try and get a picture. I'll also checkw ith the owner to get more background. He has a hump but not just the big huge one like a full blood would have.

I am telling you he is built pretty good.

The fact that he is free is not an issue. Well I guess it is. I wouldn't consider using him if I had to pay for him, but since he is free I am interested to see if he throws a good

• terminal calf.[/

[/list]quote] nope.... ive seen it time and again those type bulls are not terminal sires. im not being a smarta.. ive just been around these type long enough to know you will be disappointed come calving time

 

[RazorbackRed]

thanks for the input ala

 

[sidney411]

I have 6 calves on the ground from a bull that got into one of our lease pastures that sounds just like the one your describing. The bull was white w/ black speckles all over him, black ears, muzzle and rings around his eyes. UGLY! The calves all look like him and 2 are out of solid black cows, 2 out of solid red cows, and 2 out of pb herefords. The calves look like I grafted them to the cows - there is no resemblance to the cows coloring at all. I know I will take a major hit on these calves at the sale barn although they are pretty well muscled. I wouldn't do it if your goal is to sell them at auction.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Have a chance to use a young bull for free for one year. Thinking about putting out with about 12 of my commercial cows.

The 12 cows are composed of 6 Chars 4 blacks 1 red white face 9hereford looking cow and 1 all red heavy brammer influenced cow.

The Bull: 2 year old looks to be at least 80% brammer. The thing is speckled white/grey with black dots. Would be a real flashy bucking bull. Anyway, I know I'll probably getdocked if the calves come with some crazy colors, but I might be willing to give up a little money to have some fun with this bull, especially since its only the 12 head.

Any ideas how these calves will look and how much would I expect to get docked?

Thanks,

Razorback Red-

Your plan for the breeding program of the 12 cows you mentioned sounds like an interesting and possibly "Genetically-revealing" experiment! You might try organizing a "Group Crossbreeding" segment for your herd of 12, and segregating the calves into three - no, probably four phenotype-similar classes, and selecting the best one or two heifers from each class - either by color-phenotype, or maternal-carcass phenotype, and, using them as templates, breed them to a bull which would focus HIS phenotype traits on all of the heifers. Retaining the best one or two heifers calves from THAT mating and concentrating those phenotypical characteristics and traits with still ANOTHER bull (possibly a pretty good Brahma or Beefmaster) you could have the beginning of a Composite line that you could parlay into a PROFITABLE operation. . . . .and have fun at the same time! The steers and heifers that won't be used in your "Group Crossbreeding" program should bring a fair return, even with the docking that they will get.

What basic genetics are the rest of your herd comprised? What breed bulls are you using at the present time?

By careful selection of the females which you will retain, you could "balance" your "Group Crossbred" herd with selecting a Bull which will compensate for the weaknesses of the females in the fourth generation, and the fifth generation Genetics and Phenotype could be very stable and profitable. And isn't that what it's all about?

DOC HARRIS

 

[Rustler9]

As I mentioned earlier in this post we got some very good females out of the cross that we did which was Beefalo and Beefmaster cows bred to the Plummer bull. All of the calves were colored like him. But when we bred those females (the Plummer daughters) back on Charolais we got the yellow colored calves and they were good calves and sold well. Now when we used a black bull, black Gelbvieh and/or black Angus we got some calves that were black and some were the wild colored black and white speckled (of course the speckled ones got docked at the barn even though they were well built and growthy calves). But, I do agree with Doc, try it and see what you come out with. Especially if you might be interested in keeping a few of the heifers to cross back with something else.

 

[RazorbackRed]

We run a commercial herd so we got a little of everything. We cover all of them with Charolais bulls currently. Would be no problem putting a Char back on the heifers out of this bull in order to throw those good solid yellow calves that seem to be selling so well. I think I could get enough of the ear out of the daughters crossed with the charolais. The first set of steers and culled heifers will probably get hammered at the sale barn, but my overall exposure on just these 12 is pretty low.

I'll try and post a picture of the bull just to cause a little stir. Then I'll let him go to work.

Thanks,

 

[Rustler9]

We lost all of the ear when we used the Char bull back on those cross heifers.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Have a chance to use a young bull for free for one year. Thinking about putting out with about 12 of my commercial cows.

The 12 cows are composed of 6 Chars 4 blacks 1 red white face 9hereford looking cow and 1 all red heavy brammer influenced cow.

The Bull: 2 year old looks to be at least 80% brammer. The thing is speckled white/grey with black dots. Would be a real flashy bucking bull. Anyway, I know I'll probably getdocked if the calves come with some crazy colors, but I might be willing to give up a little money to have some fun with this bull, especially since its only the 12 head.

Any ideas how these calves will look and how much would I expect to get docked?

Thanks,

Razorback Red-

Your plan for the breeding program of the 12 cows you mentioned sounds like an interesting and possibly "Genetically-revealing" experiment! You might try organizing a "Group Crossbreeding" segment for your herd of 12, and segregating the calves into three - no, probably four phenotype-similar classes, and selecting the best one or two heifers from each class - either by color-phenotype, or maternal-carcass phenotype, and, using them as templates, breed them to a bull which would focus HIS phenotype traits on all of the heifers. Retaining the best one or two heifers calves from THAT mating and concentrating those phenotypical characteristics and traits with still ANOTHER bull (possibly a pretty good Brahma or Beefmaster) you could have the beginning of a Composite line that you could parlay into a PROFITABLE operation. . . . .and have fun at the same time! The steers and heifers that won't be used in your "Group Crossbreeding" program should bring a fair return, even with the docking that they will get.

What basic genetics are the rest of your herd comprised? What breed bulls are you using at the present time?

By careful selection of the females which you will retain, you could "balance" your "Group Crossbred" herd with selecting a Bull which will compensate for the weaknesses of the females in the fourth generation, and the fifth generation Genetics and Phenotype could be very stable and profitable. And isn't that what it's all about?

DOC HARRIS

or you may spend year's trying to stabilize a genetic nightmare

 

[Rustler9]

I don't think so.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

i dont imagine you would. but this is the type thing that the midwest buyers of beef calves knock southern cattle's inconsistencies. if this type of cross would work you can bet some one would have it cornerned before now..... aint gettin docked for cattle like this reason enough to tell you it aint working.