Brown Swiss

[mml373]

I am having an awful time finding a cow/calf pair to provide family milk needs. Was looking at a brown swiss or mini jersey. Nobody in my area seems to have had anything for sale lately (neighbor did, but didn't know we were looking till after he took everything to auction).

Anyone from Wright County, MO area on here who will have or knows someone who will have a brown swiss or mini jersey pair in milk? Must be docile and used to being handled.

 

[MurraysMutts]

Jerseys....

 

[farmerjan]

You can feed 2 mini jerseys for what one brown swiss will eat... they are big cows, overall slower maturing than any of the other dairy breeds, and more stubborn when they want to be... Takes a different mind set to raise them... and I don't have it... have had several.... have a couple of dairies that have some, registered, and show them, and they talk about the challengers with them.
Put your name in at the stockyard/auction... they might get a family cow in that someone can't keep any longer... or if something like your neighbor's situation comes up... and they can contact you. It is in their best interest to watch for things like that.....helps their sales and such.

 

[Dave]

A mini Jersey or a Brown Swiss. That is opposite ends of the size scale.

 

[Rafter S]

I am having an awful time finding a cow/calf pair to provide family milk needs. Was looking at a brown swiss or mini jersey. Nobody in my area seems to have had anything for sale lately (neighbor did, but didn't know we were looking till after he took everything to auction).

Anyone from Wright County, MO area on here who will have or knows someone who will have a brown swiss or mini jersey pair in milk? Must be docile and used to being handled.

I'm curious. Why did you zero in on those two options? Jerseys aren't very large to begin with, so why look for a "mini Jersey"?

 

[farmerjan]

I have to agree with @Rafter S . Jerseys, even the ones that have been bred in the last 10-20 years to be bigger with more milk production....are still not that big of a breed. Most mature in the 10-1100 lb range at best... There are now "supposedly " 3 sizes of jerseys... the "standard", mid-sized, and mini's..... all according to who you talk to.
I will tell you now from experience, that "mini's" in the jersey breed, as well as the mini-herefords and zebu's and a few others that are considered mini... the angus that were labeled Lowlines, originally developed in Australia, are now classified as Aberdeen Angus as opposed to the original Aberdeen Angus association that was renamed the American Angus assoc.... are more likely to have difficulties than the standard sized cattle.
There are alot of nuances there that I will not go into., considering the angus "sizes... But all that said, some consider the "lowlines" or now called Aberdeen Angus a mini breed.

Regardless of the designations... "MINI" breeds have their own set of problems... many times having dwarf or bull dog calves... there are recessive genes that crop up much more frequently. In general, they have breeding problems much more often and finding semen and a breeder to breed them may be more of a challenge. Calving is also an issue for many. I have friends that have some Dexters, and I will not breed their cattle AI.... also Kerry cattle are considered a smaller breed, some call them mini's, others do not.
Jerseys are normally a smaller breed of dairy cattle anyway. You do not want 3-6 gallons of milk, a milking, for a family cow unless you have a dozen kids or are feeding a bunch of bottle calves. The more milk a jersey makes, the more often they are susceptible to things like milk fever at calving time. And they are often more likely to get milk fever than other breeds. I have had a couple over the years, and they were always the heaviest milkers.

All that said, I would not recommend a mini jersey for a family cow unless you are well experienced with dairy animals to start with.
On top of all that, these "mini breeds" are also twice as expensive due to their novelty... You will pay through the nose most times for them.

 

[Travlr]

I have to agree with @Rafter S . You do not want 3-6 gallons of milk, a milking, for a family cow unless you have a dozen kids or are feeding a bunch of bottle calves. The more milk a jersey makes, the more often they are susceptible to things like milk fever at calving time.

I was introduced to a guy in Northern California that was milking about ten Angus. He was selling raw milk to people that liked organic. I've had plenty of beef cows that had great temperaments and gave enough milk to feed a calf and produce for the family table.

I really don't know why people just jump to dairy immediately for their milk. Any calm cow that can be handled, and has enough milk for the needs you have, produces acceptable milk.

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

Some breeds have more butterfat than others. Angus at 3.72%. Jerseys at about 5%. Surprisingly, Brahma cows have the highest butterfat. They milk a lot of Brahmas in India.

Beef cattle milk:
Angus 3.72 % BF
Hereford 2.54% BF
Shorthorn 2.31% BF
another study: Angus 4.6% BF - 3.92 Protein
Simmental 5.25% BF - 4.24% Protein


Dairy breed milk:
Holstien 3.7 % BF -3.2% Protein
Jersey 5% BF - 3.8 Protein
Guernsey 4.7 BF - 3.6 Protein
Brown Swiss 4.1 BF - 3.5 Protein
Ayeshire 4% BF - 3.3 Protein

Brahma 7% BF

I have a feeling that most collected data is not a summary of daily milk records - full milk-outs - but maybe an occasional sample collected at the cow. And that is never an accurate bf% because all the cream is at the end. To be accurate, they would need to collect monthly records, DHIA style.
For example, someone's Jersey is giving about 5.1% bf right now. A couple squirts in the middle of milking into a vial tested at about 2.6%.

Taking and doing something with a gallon of Jersey milk a day sent my cholesterol levels through the roof. You do not want to be the other calf of a Jersey cow

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

An inexperienced person looking for a cow calf pair to share milk..... this could be a rodeo. The price of mini Jerseys I have seen on the family cow board is sky high then you have to find a mini bull. Why not just get a La Mancha goat doe? They have the highest butterfat of goats. They would need a cream separator though to make butter.

 

[farmerjan]

I know of several people, myself included, that have often milked half dairy/half beef animals. One of the most popular years ago were hereford/holstein crosses. They often had udders that fell apart after several lactations, but their dispositions were often real good. I have milked some jer/angus crosses but they tend to have some attitudes... also hol/jer can be moody, and often their udders would fall apart after 3-4 lactations. Mostly the center ligament support. Have tested several herds over the years that have had them and most all said NEVER AGAIN....
I can pretty much agree, udders are not always great on the ones I have had after about the 3rd-4th calf. I have one now, that I use as a nurse cow, and she has been a sweetheart about taking calves most years... This year she has been more moody; but took the 2 extras I put on her and has done okay with them. She gets a little fractious in the barn eating grain lately, not liking me to touch her which she never did before.

The couple of hol/angus and hereford/hol I have had mostly were pretty easy going.

I really like the Montebeliarde/holstein crosses and Mont/jersey crosses I have seen... not alot of them but they really put on weight like a beef animal and milk pretty good. Had one dairy that did alot of Mont crosses, Normande, and sweedish and norwegian reds. Bull calves were mostly red but grew and gained real good... females milked pretty good and were good grazers. Had more of the darker red of the ayshire cattle.
Ayshires are a good breed, they have a reputation of being high strung, but there was a herd here in Va years ago that you could walk through the barn and they would come up to see what you were doing... soooo quiet and great personalities. They bred for disposition as well as milk.
Another larger and meatier breed is the Lineback cattle... They milk good and are pretty fleshy also. Have one dairy that has several.
I want a Dutch belted for milking... different from the Belted Galloway. Just to see if they are as decent as I have heard and read. Granted I could wind up with one that was a witch... but have had a few of them in other breeds too.... they are also touted as long lived and good for grazing.

There are more to choose from if you look.

 

[Nesikep]

Some breeds have more butterfat than others. Angus at 3.72%. Jerseys at about 5%. Surprisingly, Brahma cows have the highest butterfat. They milk a lot of Brahmas in India.

Beef cattle milk:
Angus 3.72 % BF
Hereford 2.54% BF
Shorthorn 2.31% BF
another study: Angus 4.6% BF - 3.92 Protein
Simmental 5.25% BF - 4.24% Protein


Dairy breed milk:
Holstien 3.7 % BF -3.2% Protein
Jersey 5% BF - 3.8 Protein
Guernsey 4.7 BF - 3.6 Protein
Brown Swiss 4.1 BF - 3.5 Protein
Ayeshire 4% BF - 3.3 Protein

Brahma 7% BF

I have a feeling that most collected data is not a summary of daily milk records - full milk-outs - but maybe an occasional sample collected at the cow. And that is never an accurate bf% because all the cream is at the end. To be accurate, they would need to collect monthly records, DHIA style.
For example, someone's Jersey is giving about 5.1% bf right now. A couple squirts in the middle of milking into a vial tested at about 2.6%.

Taking and doing something with a gallon of Jersey milk a day sent my cholesterol levels through the roof. You do not want to be the other calf of a Jersey cow

I have a hard time believing Shorthorns have only 2.3% BF, I had a beef shorthorn/herf cross and she had lots of cream
I don't know where Gelbvieh falls on the BF officially, but I've had a number of milkable girls that were gelbvieh/shorthorns and they were really good and easy to handle

 

[Warren Allison]

@mml373 I recently bought some cows that were Braunvieh/Brown Swiss cross. One is half and half the rest 3/4 Braun and 1/4 Brown Swiss. They had been used as recip cows for a registered Charolais operation. The 3/4 cows looked as good, udder wise, as the 1/2 and 1/2. They were all grass fed, and are just now weaning their calves, as each one gets 205 days old. I am sure if they were raising one calf, and fed a little dairy feed too, that you could have easily milked them for family use as well. I bet you could a straight Braunvieh, too. He had some other recip cows that were 1/2 Fleckvieh, that looked like the old timey Simmentals we had in the 70's. I bet a Fleckvieh cow would raise a calf and would milk for you as well. You could breed either one of those to a beef bull each year to freshen her, and you'd have a marketable calf to sell as a bonus. One of the ones I got, the 1/2 and 1/2, is 15 years old and her udder is in as good a shape as the 10 yr olds' are. I bet you could get a good dual-purpose cow that would work well for you, and hold up a lot better than a straight dairy cow would.

 

[moses388]

Kerry cattle are considered a smaller breed, some call them mini's, others do not.

Kerry cattle? .... Oh, so that's where horned Angus come from.

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

There are Shorthorns and there are milking Shorthorns. There are a lot of chunky red roan cattle here on the SW coast of Oregon.

Milking Shorthorn Cattle - Oklahoma State University

One of the oldest recognized breeds in the world, Shorthorn cattle originated in Northeastern England furnishing meat, milk and power.

afs.okstate.edu

Shorthorn Cattle - Oklahoma State University

Shorthorn cattle originated in England and are known as large milkers and for attaining high carcass weights.

afs.okstate.edu

Mr. Allison? How is that colt you saved from the idiot trainer doing?

 

[Warren Allison]

There are Shorthorns and there are milking Shorthorns. There are a lot of chunky red roan cattle here on the SW coast of Oregon.

Milking Shorthorn Cattle - Oklahoma State University

One of the oldest recognized breeds in the world, Shorthorn cattle originated in Northeastern England furnishing meat, milk and power.

afs.okstate.edu

Shorthorn Cattle - Oklahoma State University

Shorthorn cattle originated in England and are known as large milkers and for attaining high carcass weights.

afs.okstate.edu

Mr. Allison? How is that colt you saved from the idiot trainer doing?

Coming along nicely, TJM. Yesterday we had very strong, gusty winds all day...the worst time to fool with horses. Or cattle or any other prey animal, really. They can't tell where the sounds and scents are coming from. I rode him a little ( I can't stand cold weather, which I define as below 70), and he acted like a 20 yr old kid-broke, lady-safe horse. This hoss is smart, like most cow-bred horses. HAd an isue with a farrier Dan sent out today. Not the colt's fault. Damn fat-ass, lazy idiot was going to pull the rear shoes, and hiked the colts leg up so high, he could hold it between his legs and stand flat footed. Colt had to put his foot down, and the dude picked it up that high again, and the colt immediately jerked it away. He reared back to hit him with the shoe pullers,and I caught them and jerked them out of his hand, He started to bow up at me, but thought better about it. I told him " Here, let me show you", and had him turn his back to me, and put an arm behind his back. I took his arm and shoved it as high up toward his neck as I could. Of course he was hollering and jumping around, trying to turn around or get away. I said "THAT"S what the horse feels when you raise that leg more than 18 inches off the ground." Told him to get his sh*t up and get off of my property. I called Dan and told him what happened, and to not let the fool charge him. My farrier will be here Friday.

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

I filed my black Saddlebreds hooves today. He used to have to be held on a under upper lip jerk chain to stand for the high dollar fancy farrier at the dressage barn where I bought him. Had to leave him there for a year because our new place fences were a joke of sagging barb wire held together with bailing twine. The leasers black cattle got out on the road at night so often, the locals would get out of their cars in the middle of the night and shoo them back through the gates. Usually they would just honk so we knew they were out. We had to refence the whole place with cattle panels so they couldn't fence crawl and build a barn.

Also, this 8 year old Saddlebred was a fine harness horse exported from the east coat and was not broke to saddle. I paid this dressage trainer in central Oregon board and train for a year, thats the kind of barn it was. Took really good care of him but and she said it takes years to train a dressage horse. I told her again at the end I did not want a dressage horse but a trail horse.

With the local shoer trimmer (I just trim) he dances around if his left hind was lifted too high. He puts them in these hoof cradles. I like the hoof cradles, easier on the back but I did not have one or use one. I just did not crank his hind up to put put it between my knees, just held the foot and filed. He did fine.

Here is one of my Saddlebred trail horses. The 4 beat singlefoot gait across country is like floating and flying.



I've been reading on dairy boards that Brown Swiss tend to have an attitude as milk cows, Kind of like half angus dairy cows. I' sure these crosses can raise a big calf.

 

[Travlr]

I filed my black Saddlebreds hooves today. He used to have to be held on a under upper lip jerk chain to stand for the high dollar fancy farrier at the dressage barn where I bought him. Had to leave him there for a year because our new place fences were a joke of sagging barb wire held together with bailing twine. The leasers black cattle got out on the road at night so often, the locals would get out of their cars in the middle of the night and shoo them back through the gates. Usually they would just honk so we knew they were out. We had to refence the whole place with cattle panels so they couldn't fence crawl and build a barn.

Also, this 8 year old Saddlebred was a fine harness horse exported from the east coat and was not broke to saddle. I paid this dressage trainer in central Oregon board and train for a year, thats the kind of barn it was. Took really good care of him but and she said it takes years to train a dressage horse. I told her again at the end I did not want a dressage horse but a trail horse.

With the local shoer trimmer (I just trim) he dances around if his left hind was lifted too high. He puts them in these hoof cradles. I like the hoof cradles, easier on the back but I did not have one or use one. I just did not crank his hind up to put put it between my knees, just held the foot and filed. He did fine.

Here is one of my Saddlebred trail horses. The 4 beat singlefoot gait across country is like floating and flying.

View attachment 22986

I've been reading on dairy boards that Brown Swiss tend to have an attitude as milk cows, Kind of like half angus dairy cows. I' sure these crosses can raise a big calf.

Trail riding with English tack? That's a very athletic looking saddlebred. Are they being bred lighter nowadays?

 

[Hpacres440p]

Trail riding with English tack? That's a very athletic looking saddlebred. Are they being bred lighter nowadays?

I used to trail ride in an English saddle-much lighter for the horse and pretty dang comfortable for me too

 

[Travlr]

Some breeds have more butterfat than others. Angus at 3.72%. Jerseys at about 5%. Surprisingly, Brahma cows have the highest butterfat. They milk a lot of Brahmas in India.

Beef cattle milk:
Angus 3.72 % BF
Hereford 2.54% BF
Shorthorn 2.31% BF
another study: Angus 4.6% BF - 3.92 Protein
Simmental 5.25% BF - 4.24% Protein


Dairy breed milk:
Holstien 3.7 % BF -3.2% Protein
Jersey 5% BF - 3.8 Protein
Guernsey 4.7 BF - 3.6 Protein
Brown Swiss 4.1 BF - 3.5 Protein
Ayeshire 4% BF - 3.3 Protein

Brahma 7% BF

I have a feeling that most collected data is not a summary of daily milk records - full milk-outs - but maybe an occasional sample collected at the cow. And that is never an accurate bf% because all the cream is at the end. To be accurate, they would need to collect monthly records, DHIA style.
For example, someone's Jersey is giving about 5.1% bf right now. A couple squirts in the middle of milking into a vial tested at about 2.6%.

Taking and doing something with a gallon of Jersey milk a day sent my cholesterol levels through the roof. You do not want to be the other calf of a Jersey cow

I wonder what kind of butterfat Corrientes have? I'm betting Corrientes give skim milk...

 

[Warren Allison]

I filed my black Saddlebreds hooves today. He used to have to be held on a under upper lip jerk chain to stand for the high dollar fancy farrier at the dressage barn where I bought him. Had to leave him there for a year because our new place fences were a joke of sagging barb wire held together with bailing twine. The leasers black cattle got out on the road at night so often, the locals would get out of their cars in the middle of the night and shoo them back through the gates. Usually they would just honk so we knew they were out. We had to refence the whole place with cattle panels so they couldn't fence crawl and build a barn.

Also, this 8 year old Saddlebred was a fine harness horse exported from the east coat and was not broke to saddle. I paid this dressage trainer in central Oregon board and train for a year, thats the kind of barn it was. Took really good care of him but and she said it takes years to train a dressage horse. I told her again at the end I did not want a dressage horse but a trail horse.

With the local shoer trimmer (I just trim) he dances around if his left hind was lifted too high. He puts them in these hoof cradles. I like the hoof cradles, easier on the back but I did not have one or use one. I just did not crank his hind up to put put it between my knees, just held the foot and filed. He did fine.

Here is one of my Saddlebred trail horses. The 4 beat singlefoot gait across country is like floating and flying.

View attachment 22986

I've been reading on dairy boards that Brown Swiss tend to have an attitude as milk cows, Kind of like half angus dairy cows. I' sure these crosses can raise a big calf.

Nice looking Saddlebred, TJM. Nice head, wide-set eyes...a mark of intelligence.