Breeding older cows

[Gale Seddon]

We arranged to have two older cows (ages 5 and 6, never bred before) here to be bred to our bull. (Yeah, I know they should have been bred to calve at age 2, but no bull was available; the cows' owner wanted to give this a try. Both were fully vaccinated, etc., before they arrived in early July.) Preg check (palpation) on 10/26 found one 3 months pregnant, the other was open so vet administered lutalyse to that one. Ultrasound on 12/14 found both open, so the pregnant one evidently lost her calf. Vet suggested giving it one more month, which we're willing to do.

Any thoughts on what we can do to help get these cows pregnant or reasons why they can't? The owner is a very nice guy, appreciates that we've kept them 5 months (!!!) and we sure would like to help. The bull is 2 years old, and our own cows are pregnant by him. Do you think that AI with CIDRs and all that would have any chance of success? I'd like to give this guy some hope if possible and appreciate your insight. Thanks very much!

 

[whatabull]

We arranged to have two older cows (ages 5 and 6, never bred before) here to be bred to our bull. (Yeah, I know they should have been bred to calve at age 2, but no bull was available; the cows' owner wanted to give this a try. Both were fully vaccinated, etc., before they arrived in early July.) Preg check (palpation) on 10/26 found one 3 months pregnant, the other was open so vet administered lutalyse to that one. Ultrasound on 12/14 found both open, so the pregnant one evidently lost her calf. Vet suggested giving it one more month, which we're willing to do.

Any thoughts on what we can do to help get these cows pregnant or reasons why they can't? The owner is a very nice guy, appreciates that we've kept them 5 months (!!!) and we sure would like to help. The bull is 2 years old, and our own cows are pregnant by him. Do you think that AI with CIDRs and all that would have any chance of success? I'd like to give this guy some hope if possible and appreciate your insight. Thanks very much!

Gale, My Gut reaction is.......... the reason never bred, is because neither can carry a calf. what did the vet say.

Put wheels on them off to the sale barn, Culls all the way. Sorry

 

[Caustic Burno]

We arranged to have two older cows (ages 5 and 6, never bred before) here to be bred to our bull. (Yeah, I know they should have been bred to calve at age 2, but no bull was available; the cows' owner wanted to give this a try. Both were fully vaccinated, etc., before they arrived in early July.) Preg check (palpation) on 10/26 found one 3 months pregnant, the other was open so vet administered lutalyse to that one. Ultrasound on 12/14 found both open, so the pregnant one evidently lost her calf. Vet suggested giving it one more month, which we're willing to do.

Any thoughts on what we can do to help get these cows pregnant or reasons why they can't? The owner is a very nice guy, appreciates that we've kept them 5 months (!!!) and we sure would like to help. The bull is 2 years old, and our own cows are pregnant by him. Do you think that AI with CIDRs and all that would have any chance of success? I'd like to give this guy some hope if possible and appreciate your insight. Thanks very much!

Gale, My Gut reaction is.......... the reason never bred, is because neither can carry a calf. what did the vet say.

Put wheels on them off to the sale barn, Culls all the way. Sorry

Boy that's right turn em into viena sausage.

 

[Brandonm2]

I can't even fathom keeping a cow that did not calve as a three year old. This is a very experienced board; BUT I really doubt that anybody here has ever owned much less tried to breed a five or six year old virgin heifer. I have culled wonderfully productive cows that came up open after 90 days with a bull. After 150 days with a bull??? with no calf nursing?? I don't think anything will work. IF your friend wants to throw more money at his pets.....a vet ""might"" be able to get them bred after a couple of gnrh injections; but those girls probably have so much fat buildup internally that I wonder if they would calve unassisted and milk real well.....though again this is a hypothetical I have NO experience with. It might be best if your friend just took his pet cows home with him and tried again in the SPRING (the easiest time of the year to get a cow to settle).

 

[Susie David]

Everything has a reason....and these cows don't have calves for a reason. I wouldn't spend the time and $$$ trying to figure it out...don't suppose the vet works for free either. Sure the bull doesn't care mind. Just my opinion. DMc

 

[milkmaid]

That's one set of cows even I wouldn't mess with.

:lol:

 

[Bama]

That's one set of cows even I wouldn't mess with.

:lol:

Now thats saying a lot.

 

[cypressfarms]

The gnrh would only help if they had cists on their ovaries, and the Cidrs would only help to sync them once removed.

Did the vet check their reproductive tract?

I wouldn't think AI'ing would help either. I believe that the reason AI is not more successfull (% wise) is that the fertilized egg is absorbed instead of attaching to the uteren wall as normal.

Running out of ideas except wheels.

 

[milkmaid]

That's one set of cows even I wouldn't mess with.

:lol:

Now thats saying a lot.

I know. :lol:

 

[Gale Seddon]

As I thought...appears to be unanimous...oh well, I sure appreciate the comments and feedback...not sure what he will do with them, maybe just keep his pasture mowed...it was worth a try but doesn't look hopeful. Thanks to everyone for responding!

 

[Frankie]

A friend was in much the same situation as your friend. For various reasons, she had a five year old "heifer". My AI tech bred the heifer with not much problem, but the calf she had was weird. I didn't see it, but she said it was dead, very small and sort of mummified. She took the "heifer" to the sale barn. Now that one of the cows has bred, she might go ahead and carry a calf. But the other one just sounds like a lost cause.

It's an interesting thing though. I wonder if by not ever being exposed to a bull, the cow didn't cycle and the eggs got old? I know heifers will cycle sooner if they have fence line exposure to a bull.

 

[Brandonm2]

If I remember back to repro class, a heifer is born with all the eggs she will ever need (and then some) and does NOT grow more, so her eggs should not be any "older" than any 5 year old cow's. I think the problem your friend ran into and what Gale's friend has is extra condition. I bet if you treated such heifers like a horse and "exercised" it hard for six months, THEN bred her I bet it would work; but who wants to spend six months working gut off of a cow by hooking her to a training wheel or luge line?

 

[TheBullLady]

A few years ago I sold a piece of property for an older couple that had kept a small group of their daughter's (now grown) show heifers. I ended up buying the cows from them, and one of the stipulations was that I take her 13 year old cow also.. she'd only had one calf in 13 years! She never bred here either.

 

[la4angus]

Send them to the sale barn after the first of the year.. Quit fooling with them.

 

[Brandonm2]

Send them to the sale barn after the first of the year.. Quit fooling with them.

When they did not try to breed the heifers in their first three years, they were declaring them to be pets. Then they descided 3 or 4 years later to expect pets to act like commercial cows. To me he reaped what he sowed. If they have been pets for 5-6 years; then they should be pets for another 10-12 years.

 

[Beefy]

most pets can breed unless they are fixed. i'm wondering what kind of cows we are talking about? and where/how he acquired them? and what condition they are in? are they too fat? freemartins? freebies? salebarnies? spayed feedlot escapees? what?

 

[sidney411]

I've spent a bit of time at a cattle reproductive facility with this heifer I have that can't maintain a pregnancy (which I sold this past weekend). The last resort for her was to sync with a CIDR, inplant an embryo and maintain the pregnancy using CIDR's. I decided that was way too much effort and money so I shipped her. They did say that sometimes after they have carried a calf to term then they will be fine to breed on their own afrer that - they've used this method successfully on cows that had been flushed too many times and wouldn't breed on thier own.

 

[Gale Seddon]

Appreciate the additional posts on this...to answer some questions:
They're Dexters; these two are easy keepers that could stand some time on the Jenny Craig program, but I'm not about to start a cow calisthenics program, LOL. They're not mine to sell...just agreed to have them here with our bull and the owner is an honorable fella who appreciates the efforts. (Our original plan was that when both were confirmed pregnant, we would keep one and return the other (along with one of our steers for the owner to finish). When the vet comes to check ours, she checks them too, so that's not that big a deal.

I guess from all the responses, that their "over conditioning" is a major factor in their not being able to become or stay pregnant (one was pregnant for 3 months; the other has not conceived at all, to our knowledge). The "other" is in heat today, much to the delight of the bull. We shall see, but I imagine both will return to the owner in another month; I've kept him fully informed of our lack of progress. Discouraging, being a rare breed and all, but one can only do so much. Maybe the owner will pursue other methods with his own vet; but not everyone with just a couple of cows is inclined to buy semen and go through the AI process.

Frankie, we too had a mummy calf several years ago and worried that the cow wouldn't calve again, but she did and has every year since then...

Thanks again, everybody.

 

[Daybreak]

Howdy,

BCS is very important. BCS 5 or 6 is ideal.
Make sure they have the full round of vaccinations, and proper boosters. Loose the fat. simply doing gnrH, or gnrH and lutalyse might kick start a heat. And if you wanted to go further, you could go with the full blown gnrH, CID-R, lutalyse, breed.

I would say since you had one conceive and abort... vaccinate.